In this episode, we’re navigating finding your place in theatre education with Thurayya UmBayemake, a Coaching Teacher with the Spark! Program at the SC Governor’s School of the Arts and Humanities. Thurayya is based in Columbia, but she works around the state guiding a team of teaching artists working with elementary school children to learn reading and storytelling. While Thurayya has lived all over the United States, a series of opportunities brought her to South Carolina.
Location: Upstate
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Matteo Miles
In this episode, we’re talking about the journey and realities of being a full-time artist with Matteo Miles, a muralist and painter, based in Greenville, South Carolina. Matteo took advantage of the programs and opportunities within the emerging art scene of Greenville to cultivate his talents, but his path hasn’t always been clear.
Transcript
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Kathryn Lawrie
“Focus on what you love, focus on what makes you happy. What makes you wake up in the morning?”
Kathryn Lawrie is the VP of Marketing at Springs Creative, and their newly spun-out company Springs Digital. She focuses on leads and revenue generation and handles corporate marketing and corporate communication for the company.
About
Kathryn Lawrie studied art at Winthrop University, with a double minor in art history and psychology. She originally planned to be an art therapist. After graduating, she moved to Columbia, where she worked retail at a jewelry store while learning from the jeweler behind the scenes. She spent months giving her resume to every arts-related employer she came across. Lawrie recalled, “To be quite honest, for a couple of months there, I was walking around town handing out my resume to every art gallery and museum and graphic design contact that I could make, and basically saying, ‘I have a degree in unemployment, can you help me?’” Her persistence paid off when one of her contacts helped her get a position at Scene Weaver, a subsidiary of Springs Creative,
Lawrie has been working at Springs Creative, across multiple positions, for eighteen years. She started out in product development in the graphics department, “really focused on the metadata and the tagging of all of the graphic files and how to resize and rescale things. Just maintaining that graphics archive.”
She branched out into marketing, and while keeping her “hand on the pulse” of product development, was able to improve her e-commerce skills, teach herself cinematography for marketing purposes, and take several trips to China while growing her department. Now, as VP of Marketing, she works with her content development teams and maintains communication between different segments of Springs Creative, and the newly spun-out company, Springs Digital.
When asked what skills young people aspiring to her role should acquire, Lawrie immediately answered, “I think soft skills are essential,” saying that they aren’t something taught in schools. She advises students to be their authentic selves, and “focus on what you love, focus on what makes you happy… what makes you wake up in the morning, and hone those skills.”
She also recommends students check out the designer-guided tours Springs offers of their textile archive, saying it’s “a great place to be inspired.” She promises that “it’s okay to be an aspiring artist,” and that students should never feel like they have a degree in unemployment like she did.
“Go for it,” she says. “Don’t let people shy you away from it.” She also says, “Springs Creative is always open to internships, and so anyone who’s in a creative field can definitely contact us with their resume and portfolio, and we could discuss opportunities for interning here at Springs.” To check out the work of the newly spun-off Springs Digital, follow this link: https://springs-digital.com/creative-services-1.
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Walter Curry
“Value success through impact rather than accolades.”
Dr. Walter B. Curry, Jr. is an award-winning author, educator, and historian based in Columbia, South Carolina. Through Renaissance Publications, he documents African American family and local history, connecting ancestral narratives to broader historical themes.
Interview
Transcript
Lexi Raines 00:04
So what do you do for work and where are you currently working from? Just give a little introduction of yourself.
Walter Curry 00:10
Well, first I want to thank you for inviting me. I have followed the Athenaeum Press for a while. I have a connection there, actually how I found out about the press about a year ago, when I’ve heard about your organization, initiatives focusing on community, with the Communal Pen, I’ve learned more about the Press.
But just to tell you about who I am: I am author and educator, and I currently live here in Columbia, South Carolina, and my work focuses on ancestry and local history. And so as an author, I write narratives about my family history which connects to local history in South Carolina, in Orangeburg and Aiken counties, where my family is located, and using those ancestral narratives through the historical context, in the broader scope of African American History and beyond.
Lexi Raines 01:29
That sounds that sounds really fascinating. It’s good to hear that you also know about the Communal Pen. That’s amazing. So how long have you been writing?
Walter Curry 01:40
I’ve been writing about been writing for five years. Yeah, five years. I started in 2018 I published my first book on the Thompson family on told stories from the past 1830 to 1960 and because of the success of the book, I won my first book award in 2019 I was encouraged to use that as a opportunity to launch my business. And so the concept and the business Renaissance Publications is a self publishing company where I published my books focusing on the literary arts, and so I’ve been writing about five years. I’ve written two books, The Thompson Family Book, my second book, The Awakening: the Cy Ellison Family Saga, Volume One, a narrative history. That book won several awards as well. And—
Lexi Raines 02:45
Awesome.
Walter Curry 02:47
Thank you. Thank you. And my third book, which will be a blockbuster South Carolina, Matilda Evans, she was the first African American woman licensed to practice medicine here in South Carolina, that book is coming out in April, and that book is going to be the exclusive biography of Dr. Evans. And so I’m blessed to have written three books so far, and I have also branched out to other areas in the literary arts, visual art. I also do presentations and design of exhibitions as well.
Lexi Raines 03:33
That’s awesome. So it sounds like you’re definitely staying busy. Yes, yes. I am. I am. You said that you have a family history in South Carolina. What’s one thing that you have, like loved about working as a creative here?
Walter Curry 03:47
South Carolina is a very unique state. South Carolina is about 80% rural, 20 urban. And the beautiful thing about South Carolina is that South Carolina is unique because of our rich history and culture. And when I travel across South Carolina doing presentations, I’m always paying attention to the area, looking at the features of the area, looking at the cultural aspects and the local history, which connects that area to other broader aspects of history. And so I will say, with South Carolina, we’re very unique as it relates to our culture, our rich history, and that creates opportunities for authors like myself to bring that history out and to make it come alive. Through the literary arts.
Lexi Raines 05:02
That’s awesome, because I feel like South Carolina does have so much like kind of hidden history that’s kind of been like pushed to the back, and that deserves to all come forward, because it’s always like such beautiful stories that are meaningful.
Walter Curry 05:18
Yes, yes, yes, I totally agree. South Carolina has a lot of hidden history. I’ve discovered during my journey that when I was researching my mother’s maternal native County, Aiken County, I discovered that Aiken County was founded by three African American men during the Reconstruction Era. Aiken County was founded on March the 10th, 1871 and I also found out that Aiken County was the only county in South Carolina that was founded during the Reconstruction Era. And so when I asked my mom and some of my relatives and friends who grew up in Aiken county in the salad area, they had no idea about the founding of Aiken County. They didn’t know that Aiken County was founded by three African American men, all state legislators and civil war veterans. And so it’s the hidden history that I have discovered which is an opportunity for authors and historians like myself to bring that hidden history out, and that is relevant in all communities across South Carolina, there are stories of hidden history that need to be brought out so it creates opportunities for those of us like myself to focus on local history and to make those broader connections to state history, national history, African American History, Women history, or other areas of History.
Lexi Raines 07:20
I feel like you’re definitely helping pave the way, like uncovering all of this stuff. So you how would you like describe the local professional community? Because you did say there’s a few others that are also working on similar projects?
Walter Curry 07:36
Yes, yes, I have a great relationship with the local professional community. I do my best to support my peers. They support me. I have collaborated with several of my peers on various projects, one in particular a good friend of mine named Wayne O’Brien. He’s a local historian and author from Aiken County. He’s from Charleston originally. We have partnered together on several activities and initiatives, the Harlem Renaissance, that exhibition. He has written several essays on his family history, about his family connection to the Harlem Renaissance, and how his great uncle, Charles Linton, discovered Ella Fitzgerald. And yes, yes. Charles Linton the Lenten family, they are from Shera and so his family is from Cheraw, and how the Harlem Renaissance is connected to my family, I’ve discovered in my ancestry that my great grandfather, first cousin Asman Ellison, lived in Harlem New York in the 1930s during the Harlem Renaissance, and he was employed at Hotel Teresa, and that that was the famous place where all of the political dignitaries, cultural icons in the African American community, even foreign leaders, they patronized and stayed at a hotel, Theresa. And so looking at my cousin his life, and also saw, I saw his picture, and I have his picture, and he wore a Zoot Suit. And so I learned about the zoot suits. And so me and my colleague, Wayne o Bryant, we have partnered together over the years. And one of the thing about being a part of a professional community, a network of peers, you are able to share information and share ideas. With each other and potential collaborative opportunities. And so I encourage that, because we don’t know everything. We have our strengths, we have our weaknesses, and I think we as creative, should acknowledge that. And the beautiful thing about being a part of a network is you lift each other up because this work sometimes is challenging, sometimes it’s frustrating. It’s a battle of the mind where we have to constantly reassure ourselves that we despite the struggles that we face from time to time, we’re in this because of our talent and we want to show the world that our talent has value because we believe that we as creatives have value, and that our value is the creative arts.
Lexi Raines 11:06
That’s awesome. Yes, I feel like I completely agree. I think it’s also so nice that, like you have, that South Carolina has such a good community to lean on. Because I feel like that’s something you may not find in, like bigger states, is that just really close connection and networking capability that we have here?
Walter Curry 11:27
Yes, yes, I totally agree. South Carolina is a close community. Is a small state, and we’re a state that is blessed to have rich culture, rich history, diversity. And I remember Governor McMaster, he mentioned in a state of the state address, he spoke about South Carolina rich diversity in history and culture, and that we are the envy of some of our competitive states because of the fact that we have rich history, rich culture from the American Revolution, Revolutionary War, Civil War and beyond. And we also have access to the mountains. We have access to the beaches. We have warm climate. So we have a lot of amenities that motivate us as creative artists to really highlight South Carolina through our work.
Lexi Raines 12:34
Yes, I would completely agree with that. And so kind of shifting gears here in your writing, like, how? How do you define, like, professional and or personal success in your creative endeavors?
Walter Curry 12:49
That’s a great question. I never thought of it. I would say that professional success, to me, is growth. I believe that over time you want to you want to see whether or not you are actually growing in the areas that you need to grow in in order to maintain success. And so for me, I look at my writing. I look at how my writing has improved over time. I also look at my activities. What are what am I doing as far as my activities to make sure that I stay active. So I measure that. Am I’m going to networking events? Am I doing professional development, professional learning opportunities? So I measure that, and how am I applying the knowledge and skills that I have obtained over time, and whether or not the knowledge and skills are working in my favor. And so that’s how I measure myself, professionally, personally, I look at the accolades, because we all want, we all need to know whether or not our work is being recognized. I’m not a person who seek personal recognition, because that is a trap. I think we have to be careful as creative to if we focus too much on personal recognition, but it doesn’t help to get recognized, and so when I receive awards, and I have received several awards for my work, that tells me that I am being noticed, and I am out there and people are. Recognizing my work, not only those who follow me and support me, but my peers who are judging my work as well.
Lexi Raines 15:09
Yeah, I would completely agree with both of those. I think, like first for what you said in your professional life, like I feel like the worst thing that can happen to a creative is that kind of like stagnation. So I feel like striving for growth at all times is the only way to grow to get anywhere. Really.
Walter Curry 15:35
I agree. I agree. I agree and to and to your point, you don’t want to feel stagnated. You always want to achieve growth, and
Lexi Raines 15:48
then with the your personal success, the like awards and stuff, I feel like it definitely, I would agree it’s important to have a mix of having a drive for doing it for yourself, and then having a drive to put stuff out there and be recognized. So I would, I would agree with that. Thank you. Thank you. So what was like your biggest fear when you first decided to pursue the arts?
Walter Curry 16:19
Oh, man, that’s a great question. I would say fear, fear of failure. I have failed several times in business, and I’ve learned from my mistakes. I started out as an insurance agent, following my father’s path, did pretty well, but I found out like this, ain’t me, you know, he’s a very successful insurance professional. He taught me a lot about business and some of the skills and lessons that he taught me, I still apply till this day. And then I moved into real estate, got my real estate license, and I only sold one house. Actually, it was a cousin who I helped, and he owned a rental property, and he sold it, and I helped him for 21,000 so I didn’t do well, because I thought, Man, I got this real estate license. I’m going to make a lot of money. I remember going to a subdivision and this successful real estate broker. He was like, Walter, if you come to this subdivision and you be the agent on duty. And I was thought, man, all these people going to come to me, I found out that was not so. And so I got out of, out of real estate, and then I tried jam Pro, because I was, I was convinced by a cousin to get into the cleaning business. Did okay with that. Then I quit, and then got into education. I taught school for four and a half years, then at the time, I was blessed to obtain my graduate degrees. I have three graduate degrees, by the way, and I decided to leave the classroom because I was tired of teaching middle school kids, so I didn’t do well with that. And I look back at that experience, and I said to myself, if I would have applied myself, I would have been a better teacher. So I was a rebel, okay? And I didn’t take my training seriously, so I fell on what I know, and at the time, I was going through a midlife, midlife crisis, I remember all of the stories that my mom shared with me about her family history, and I did some research and find out that man I have an ancestor who was an enslaved cook in the Confederate Army, and found out about her, located her pension record. Then I did some more research find out about ancestors who were enslaved, more written records, primary sources. I said, Wait a minute. I got something here. Okay, and so I was able to discover my passion in history. I have discovered my passion as a writer, and because of my background in education and business, I put those skills to use, and I have successfully applied those skills. And so I’ve been doing this for five years, but my biggest fear when I started. Out was the fear of failure. And the fear of failure for me was the mistake over the years prior to me becoming a business owner in the literary arts, was the lack of application, the lack of discipline, not being humble, okay, not learning from mistakes. And so I say to myself, I will not fail again, you know? And so I’m blessed to be in business for five years. It has really been an incredible journey. Yes, I
Lexi Raines 20:41
I feel like that definitely shows too that everything that you do does ultimately get you, if not, where you thought you would originally be. It gets you to where, somewhere, where you will be happy, like your business background, your time as a teacher, all of that led up to you being a writer. So it really shows you never know where life is going to take you all the time.
Walter Curry 21:08
Well, I agree. I agree, and that’s why you have to have a open mind. I encourage everyone to seek your gift, seek your calling. I believe that everyone has a calling. Everyone has a gift. It’s how we cultivate our calling, how we cultivate our gift and be able to appreciate that. I’ve learned that you cannot be something that you’re not. You know you could try, but you cannot be something that you’re not. You could, you could try to fill somebody else’s shoes, but over time, those shoes are going to get bigger and bigger, and your feet going to get smaller and smaller. It’s kind of like my grandma, Lizzie Williams curry, she passed away several years ago at the age of 102 and she said she shared a lot of wisdom and advice with me during her last years. We had a lot of private conversations, and she told me about my journey, she said, Walter, I’m going to tell you something. You got to stay in your lane. Okay, stay in your lane. Don’t worry about trying to ride somebody else’s lane, because if you do that, you’re going to get run over. Okay, stay on the path that God has called you to do. Don’t worry about what people say, because people going to talk, they going to criticize. I mean, that’s part of life, that’s part of the game, but you got to stay focused on what God has called you to do, and stay in your lane. So I live by that example, and I don’t try to interject myself in a lane that I am not called to run on. So for instance, because of my popularity as an author and a historian, I have received numerous requests about doing other things and also requests in knowledge that I’m not familiar with don’t have no expertise, so I’m happy to defer to those who do have knowledge, experience and expertise, and that’s why a professional community of peers is so important, because, number one, it helps you to identify peers who have the knowledge, skills and expertise and the resources. And number two, it gives you credibility, meaning that I don’t know all the answers, but I know someone who does so that gives folks a sense of your credibility and your ethical behavior in the field,
Lexi Raines 24:12
I would completely agree. I feel like staying in your lane, like I have a question later about like the best and worst advice you’ve ever received, but I think that is genuinely good advice too, because I feel like, if you are trying to like, you said, like, interject yourself into other places. I feel like that can be where, like so much unhappiness will stem from. Like, that fear of judgment from doing like, what you truly want to do. So I feel like that is just a really, really important and wise piece of information she gave you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So please like describe, for me, a defining moment in your creative journey, like, did you have a like, a particular project or moment that had the biggest. Impact on, on you.
Walter Curry 25:03
Yes, yes, I will say the defining moment for me was in 2020 before COVID. February the first 2020 black history, month of the unveiling of my first exhibition Sally in the Thompson family, and that exhibition was featured at the Aiken County Historical Museum in Aiken, South Carolina, where my maternal family is from. And I, along with the director, Laura Virgo, we collaborated for about six months on the exhibition, the items and the promotion. And I remember putting, putting the word about the exhibition out to the public and on social media. And I looked up one day find out. Man, it is sold out. And I remember Laura said, Doctor, curry. We are at capacity. I said, what? You gotta be kidding me. And so I remember, I spent the weekend down there. My cousins gave me we had an Alli at my cousin house, and so they were so excited. I mean, I mean, they were so excited. Some cousins I never met, who came down, and I was like, wow, they doing all this for me. And so I on Saturday morning, I lost my wallet, and luckily, I was able to recover it. I left it at a gas station, so I said to myself, Man, I lost my wallet a few hours before the opening event of this exhibition. I’m freaking out. And so when, when, when the exhibition was finally open, during event time, I looked up and there were people coming from all walks of life. I mean, I think it was over 100 people. And according to the museum, they say that that was the largest gathering of an exhibition in its history. Insane. That was insane. I was like, Oh, my God, this is insane here, you know. So that was a defining moment for me to really sink my teeth in and say, Okay, this is something. I could do this. And so that led to me defining my skills, making sure that I stayed with what I am doing. And so that was the defining moment. And the second defining moment was recently when I finished writing, when I finished writing my third book on South Carolina, Matilda Evans, a medical pioneer, and looking at my work and looking at how this book is really going to be a major blockbuster in South Carolina history. That is another defining moment for me. So yes, those are two defining moments.
Lexi Raines 28:30
Those both sound so like special I can’t even imagine, like, how you must have felt in that moment. That is congratulations. That is actually amazing. Thank you. So, yeah, of course. So I know we kind of already did hit on this, but if you have any other advice, what is the best advice you’ve received and the worst advice you’ve received?
Walter Curry 28:57
The best advice I receive, I will say, like I said during our interview, is stay in your lane. Know what you’re good at, and perfect your skill and talent. And that has helped me the worst advice. I haven’t received any worse advice. I will say, being tempted to do something that you don’t want to do. I will say over joining organizations. Sometimes we do that. Join this organization, you join that organization, and you hoping that if you join organizations, you will get something out of it. So I will say that is, is the worst advice that I receive. And I will say in that if you going to join an. Organization, you have to feel comfortable. You have to know why you join in that organization, and you don’t want to over join. You want to join organizations that relates to your interests. So that is the two advices that I have received.
Lexi Raines 30:47
I feel like that is definitely good thing, or a good piece of advice, or not over joining organizations, because I feel like young creatives, they are just trying to, like, get their names out there, do whatever they can do, as much as they can. And I feel like, as an artist, it’s so easy to stretch yourself too thin and kind of like get burnt out in that way, which is obviously never what you want to happen to your passions.
Walter Curry 32:53
Oh, I totally agree. And we can get burned out, and you get burned out to a point where it does affect your cognitive ability, because as a creative your mind is all over the place. You know, I even have to guard that myself. Well, well, I want to do this, but, but I know I shouldn’t okay, what I shouldn’t do, what I shouldn’t do I should do okay and to your point, we have to guard our minds. And I will tell any creative, guard your mind. Take time for yourself. Don’t worry about whether or not you’re going to get opportunities. Opportunities will come if you just stay focused and perfect your craft, stay engaged. Opportunities will come, and I’ve discovered that. I’ve discovered the days that I feel like, Are there any opportunities coming? You check your email, you find out, Oh, man, there’s an opportunity. Okay, yeah, yeah. And also cultivate relationships and give back. I think sometimes we miss that. I mean those organizations and peers who have helped us, we need to help them. And I would say that to creatives, that when you have downtime, that doesn’t mean that you’re not working. Okay, that’s an opportunity where you can reflect. That’s an opportunity where you can say, Okay, I need to retweet this. I need to retweet that. I may need to revise this content, revise that content, that content. That could be an opportunity to do some promotion on social media. Okay, follow up on emails. So So I always, I will always say that there’s always something to do, but the same time you have to know what your goals are, what your interests are.
Lexi Raines 32:53
I completely agree with that. Because, like, even on your point with like, not being afraid to give yourself that time to relax and have that downtime. Even I have felt that this past semester in school like it, it’s okay to give your brain a little break, and in that moment, in those moments where you are taking that break, you can find so much inspiration for things when they pick up again.
Walter Curry 33:21
Oh, absolutely. And you have to reflect on your successes too. When you reflect on your successes, that will help you feel positive, because, you know it’s like with Steve Harvey. He owns a radio show, and he has his his morning talks, and his morning talks are very, very powerful, inspirational. I remember listening to one of his morning talks, and he mentioned about how you have to speak something positive about your life, where God has placed you in your life. He will start off by saying, Steve got a radio show, yeah, I got a radio show. Okay? And he will tell you what led to him getting that radio show. He will tell you that man, several years ago, I was homeless. I was sleeping in my car. Okay, now I’m sitting in this chair, and I have my own radio show, and so he takes the time to reflect on his successes, and we have to do that, but particularly in this world of distractions, as we see, there are so many distractions, and so I would encourage creatives to reflect on your successes, and that doesn’t mean reflecting on your awards or your accomplishments, but but if you have published a book, if you have. Design or create a painting. Count that as a success. I mean, I mean, count the fact that you are participating in a professional development opportunity. Okay, the little things. It’s the little things that we have to appreciate. I believe in what St Augustine said in his book confessions, it’s the little things that leads to the greater things he didn’t say. These are the greater things he says, those little things. And so those little things that we have to pay attention to.
Lexi Raines 35:37
I completely agree you have, you have good advice after good advice, this is going to be awesome. So can you walk us through like a typical work day, like, what does your work process look like, and what do you kind of like expect from yourself on a daily basis?
Walter Curry 35:57
That’s a great question. You never know. I’m a father of two sons. I have a lovely wife who supports me, so it’s always unpredictable. I’m blessed to have flexibility. I work from home, so I make it a point to walk outside while my wife and my boys, they in the kitchen getting ready. I’m getting ready to take them to school. So I believe walking outside in the morning to feel refreshed, to connect with nature, to clear your mind, because your mind has to be clear. Also, I work out. I go to the gym twice a week. I’m trying to increase it to three times a week, because your success connects to your physical success. I believe that in order for us as creatives to stay engaged mentally, to decrease stress, we must take care ourselves, take care of our bodies, and we have to incorporate physical activity. So I do work out at the gym. I check my emails in the morning. I look at things that I could do as far as my work. I pick up the kids from school, help them out with their homework, and when my wife and my kids are sleep, I’m back on the computer, catching up on things. Well, that’s my typical work day. I do have presentations, and so when I schedule presentations. I take the time to prepare for those presentations and other projects that I’m working on, making phone calls.
Lexi Raines 37:51
So how do you create like that work life balance where you’re able to maintain like your professional creativity, your personal creativity, and just like that time with your family.
Walter Curry 38:03
Yeah, it’s a challenge. Sometimes it’s a challenge because in my position, I’m blessed to be compensated for my work. I receive compensation through a grant from the South Carolina Arts Commission. I have a partnership with the Aiken Center for the Arts. I am the author in residence, and so we have a grant through the South Carolina Arts Commission, where we host historical exhibitions in middle schools across Aiken County, eighth grade classes. And so I’m blessed to be compensated, and also I’m a member of the South Carolina humanities speakers bureau, where I’m part of a circuit of speakers of history, art and culture called South Carolina, and I present at various cultural centers, museums, arts and humanities organizations across the state. And so I’m blessed that I am being compensated for my work. And I think we have to feel well, let me say we need to be compensated for our work because of what we put in. And so I’m always looking for opportunities for compensation, and if those opportunities for compensation don’t come quickly, then I’m looking to help other authors. And that’s a key point I want to make too, is don’t just look to see compensation all the time, there could be an opportunity to help another creative, and that creative will help you. There could be an opportunity to connect with it, with an influencer. And influencers are very, very important in our work. Those are the individuals who have influence in areas of expert. Teas, but also have influence in networks that could give us opportunities, and so we have an opportunity to help the influencer. So these are strategies that I have used over the years that have helped me, because as a creative, you’re going to experience gaps, okay? I mean, in any business, there will be gaps, okay, but how do you overcome those gaps? How do you train your mind mentally to not allow those gaps to affect your confidence? And so that’s why I live by three things, looking for opportunities that provide compensation, looking to help other peers, and also looking to help influencers and get involved in my professional networks.
Lexi Raines 40:58
I would completely agree. I feel that, like, obviously, when you are working creatively, you do want to worry about money, but like, there’s so many other ways that you can kind of get that, like payout, like just their experience, or growing your circle, all of those things that you mentioned.
Walter Curry 41:19
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree.
Lexi Raines 41:24
So as we’re approaching the end of the interview, do you have any questions that you wish you were asked?
Walter Curry 41:32
Oh, no, no. I really enjoyed this interview. I got off to a slow start, but over time during this interview, really enjoyed answering the questions.
Lexi Raines 41:47
I’ve really enjoyed talking with you. I feel like you have so many like valuable, so many valuable words of advice for people that I think will be just so helpful. Thank you. Thank you. So my last question, do you have a creative that you would like to be interviewed, that you’d like to nominate to be interviewed?
Walter Curry 42:09
I do several of them, several of them. I will say my cousin Teresa Corley Wright and here’s why I say that, because she was the one who introduced me to the world of writing. Really tell you this story like myself, she is a family historian. We share a common we share a common ancestors, and I remember myself and Teresa, we discussed the idea of a family history book. And at the time, I knew that Teresa had experience in writing books. She has written several books over the years and and she told me, she said, Well, Walter, since you know the family history and you know a lot of relatives, you should write the book. I said, me, Ah, man, I’ve never written a book, you know. I said. I said, okay, okay, okay, okay. You gotta be kidding me. I’m just gonna provide you the information. But I said, Well, wait a minute. You know, I’m at a midlife crisis. This is an opportunity for me to show what I can do. And so I took the opportunity I wrote the book through trial and error. But what’s so interesting about my first book is the structure of the book is the same structure that I use when I wrote my dissertation. And so I had no format of writing a book. I say, Okay, I’m going to write the narratives, and then I’m going to write an interpretive essays about the narratives. Okay? And that’s qualitative research, where you take narratives and you write interpretive reflection essays about the narratives, looking at themes and context and so forth. And so I follow that format, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll follow that format. So yes, Teresa has been very helpful. She She deserved to be honored. She has now received accolades for her work, and so I will, I will be be honored to recommend her,
Lexi Raines 44:55
Yes, okay, awesome, so I’m going to be sending. You like a little follow up email, and I’ll remind you in there. But could you just like, attach either her contact information, like her email or her phone number, whichever she prefers, and then also, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, I’ve really enjoyed our time today this you just have so much good advice. It’s awesome. I feel like your story is really inspiring. Like you’re just you didn’t know what you do. That’s kind of how I’m feeling. Like I don’t know what I want to do, but you give me hope that I will end up there.
Walter Curry 45:35
Well, I appreciate it. And that’s, and that’s, and that’s, that’s what we have, is hope. Like Steve Harvey said, If you don’t have faith, have hope. And I draw on that because that was the characteristic that my ancestors had when they were enslaved and share crop. And in the rural South Carolina, they had faith, but they had hope. And I think before you have faith in something, you got to have hope. You got to have something to believe in. Because when you have hope for something, then then you will develop faith, but you got to have hope first. And how I describe hope as optimism, you have to be you have to be optimistic, and you have to really believe in yourself, because, again, there will be challenges. You have to face rejections. One of things. One thing I learned when I was active in the insurance industry, I learned about rejections. I learned about overcoming rejections, because that’s part of the process. When you are in the sales industry, you going to have objections, you’re going to have rejections. Okay? Is how you overcome those objections and rejections to move forward. It’s all saying it’s a numbers game, you know, an insurance business, it is a numbers game. And that has never changed. And so we as creatives, we’re selling our work. We are actually selling content, okay, where in insurance business, you’re selling a product, okay? That product could be life insurance, health insurance, disability, okay? Where, as a creative, you’re selling content based on an idea. Okay? You’re trying to convince people that your content and your idea worth something for them to buy. Okay, so you got to have hope and you got to have faith.
Lexi Raines 48:06
Yes, that’s also more good advice you, you just keep coming with this.
Walter Curry 48:16
I love to do a podcast one day, my tips and strategies.
Lexi Raines 48:22
Yeah, that would be awesome. We actually do have a podcast section on our website, so I’ll definitely, I’ll definitely mention you to my boss for sure.
Walter Curry 48:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate it.
Lexi Raines 48:40
Yeah, of course. So just thank you again for your time. I’ve really enjoyed this interview. I’m going to send you that follow up email, and obviously you can, like, email me any questions you have, but yeah, I think that’s it.
Walter Curry 48:55
Alright? Thank you so much.
Lexi Raines 48:57
Yeah, of course, you have a good rest of your week.
Walter Curry 49:00
Same to you. Same to you. thank you.
Lexi Raines 49:02
Thank you.
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Kelly Moran
“Success is all dependent on every single individual’s definition… You have to define what that goal is for you, because it’s going to be different for everybody.”
Kelly Moran is a multi-genre author and founder of Rowan Prose Publishing, based in York County, South Carolina. Since her first book was published in 2005, Moran has authored over 30 titles across paranormal romance, contemporary romance, and light horror.
Interview
Transcript
Emma Plutnicki 00:02
So to start, what do you do for work, and where are you currently working from?
Kelly Moran 00:09
I live in South Carolina. I’m in York, up in the north-central area, not far from Charlotte. As an author, my first published book was in 2005, and I’ve been publishing it ever since. I mostly write paranormal and contemporary romance, but I do have a horror persona as well, who writes light horror books. And in 2023 I started my own small press publishing company called Rowan Prose Publishing, also based out of York. And right now, we’ve got a little over 50 authors.
Emma Plutnicki 00:57
And so how long have you been doing each? Author you said since 2005 and publishing since 2023?
Kelly Moran 01:05
I want to say 2005 was my first published book. That sounds about right. But really, in essence, I’ve been writing since kindergarten. I always wanted to be an author, but I didn’t always know that’s what it was. You know, I get these ideas in my head, like I want to be the president, or I want to be a US gymnast or whatever, and I realized it was more the story I was interested in, than, you know, the actual job title. So I always had a creative mind. Other people sit and watch movies or do things, and 10 ideas for a new book pops up in my head. I can’t tell you how many titles I have, like 45 maybe, and I’ve been traditionally published with Berkeley/Penguin, larger publishers like Entangled and Kensington, and then I’m also I’m what they call a hybrid author. I also independently published some of my own work. I have foreign translation rights in seven different countries, and I learned a lot about marketing and design amongst other things. That kind of persuaded me to start Rowan Prose Publishing, because I would get a lot of authors who would ask for advice. So, we’re getting a whole different side of publishing and writing and things like that which never would have been seen before. So, you got the Big Five who are publishing what they want to publish, what sounds good, what’s trending. But a lot of them are not taking on what readers are necessarily looking for. They’re not taking a chance on the smaller authors, debut authors, who are just starting out. They don’t want to put a lot of time and effort into helping an author build a career or working really hard on developing a book to the best of its ability. But unless you’re a big name, a lot of publishers, even with agents, aren’t accepting new and debut authors. I got into conversations with an author, and I’ve been friends with her for a very long time, and we were discussing how can we do this? It was a big undertaking, a huge undertaking, but we’re showcasing a lot of authors that you would not see on shelves elsewhere. You know, you would never have heard about these great, amazing, wonderful stories that bigger publishers don’t just want to take a chance on. And because we were by authors, for authors, we wanted to make sure we were not only showcasing new talent, but using new and innovative marketing techniques that some other publishers don’t. We give our authors a lot more freedom than some other publishers would. So, it was a big undertaking, but I’m really glad we did it. We have some really, really amazing talent.
Emma Plutnicki 06:03
And is the is the talent that you work with from South Carolina? Or is there any influence of South Carolina within your work, whether that be the clientele or any influence that the state has on your writing?
Kelly Moran 06:19
In my own personal writing, yes, I have. In my, fact, I’m writing a southern romcom series right now that’s been contracted with Germany for foreign translation. For Rowan Prose, yes and no. We’ve had some really great output from independent bookstores and libraries. I don’t think we have a South Carolina author right now. Publishing is mostly a virtual entity. What I would love to see is more of the colleges and whatnot, like what you guys are doing, showcasing how to properly do this. I mean, there are so many young adults who were me once, who are like, I want to do this. And it can be very dejecting and demoralizing. And it’s, it’s, I wouldn’t want that for anybody. One of our authors, in fact, is based out of Louisiana, and is only 20. She’s in college right now.
Emma Plutnicki 08:02
Amazing. And within a creative career, I mean, it can be very difficult to figure out what your niche is and also how to find success. So how would you define professional success? Is it the number of books you sell, or is it kind of just something within you of like bringing your words to the page. What does success look like for you, both personally and professionally?
Kelly Moran 08:27
I think, to be honest with you, success is all dependent on what every single individual’s definition is. Several of my authors are like, I would just love to see my book in a library, and they will be happy for the rest of their life. Some want New York Times and USA Today bestsellers. Some want to be Stephen King or Nora Roberts and be a household name. For each individual person, you have to define what that goal is for you, because it’s going to be different for everybody.
Emma Plutnicki 14:15
Yeah, no, it makes sense. Did you have any fears when you were starting as an author, or any fears when you started your publishing company?
Kelly Moran 14:23
Oh my gosh, yes, and I still do to this day. I’ve been in this business for 20 years. A lot of it now is fear for my authors. Like, I remember getting that first bad review. Having somebody navigate that with you when you’re first starting out makes all the difference. It’s kind of like hand holding. Not every reader picks up the same book. They always say to grow a backbone, but, in my opinion, if you grow a backbone, you lose a lot of that emotional edge you can put into your writing. You know what? Cry about the bad review. Drink a glass of wine and start again. That’s all you can do. I mean, one of the funniest things I like to tell my authors is, if you look up on Google the reviews for Stonehenge, it’s got an average 2.5 to a 3-star review. So, look at it that way. There’s going to be people out there who are going to hate, and all you can do is keep going, because for everyone that does, there’s 10 that don’t. It’s easy to say grow a backbone, sometimes you get tougher skin out of it. But that’s what always scared me. I think about that every day, and I think about all my new debut authors and how they’re going through that right now. I tell them the same thing: you’re going to get bad reviews, but you’re going to get great ones, and you’re going to build great readers, too. I think a lot of what they fear the most: rejection and failure, but failure is just like success.
Emma Plutnicki 17:43
Yeah, that must be pretty cool to look back on. But has there been a significant project that you’ve worked on throughout your career that really stands out as kind of the pinnacle of your creativity, or just one project that has had a significant impact on your life?
Kelly Moran 18:02
I don’t know if there’s one project in particular, because especially for an author, it’s the little things like, oh my goodness, USA Today reviewed me, or I just won this award, or I’m a finalist in this one, or you collaborate with other authors sometimes to write a compilation and anthology. As a matter of fact, one of my other big pieces of advice is to join a writer’s group, because they have publishing professionals, editing professionals, cover design professionals, indie authors, and traditional authors. And you’ll learn a lot by going to conferences. And some of them are virtual. Some of them are in person. I remember, I think, probably my most pivotal moment that I can think of is I had written and published two or three books with some small press before this happened, and I had written this book, and it was very emotional, it kind of bordered on romance and women’s fiction, but it was a romance, and one of my author friends who I met at a conference had said, why don’t you try submitting it to my agent? I’m like, I don’t know. Okay, let me try. I had hit up hundreds of agents before in some of these previous books, and I didn’t have the reader following. I didn’t have that experience. Most of them didn’t pick me up. So, I did. I submitted it to her agent. She loved it, and that was my first mass market contract. That was my first I’m in every bookstore. That to me, I think, was the most, to date, eye opening and pivotal experience I had, because not only did I get a mass market contract and these books were everywhere, but it was also a two-book deal. That was my moment. So that would probably be the one that stands out the most.
Emma Plutnicki 21:57
Yeah, that’s pretty special. So now, a typical day, what does that look like for you? Do you spend a certain amount of time in your day writing? Are you more on the publishing side? What does a typical day look like?
Kelly Moran 22:10
It depends on what contracts I have for my writing. At the time, Rowan Prose ate most of my time, and I’m happy to do it. I mean, I love what I do. I’m literally living my dream. I wake up when I feel like it, though it’s usually six o’clock in the morning. I check on my authors, and I check on our social media. I post, but it’s a big balance. Here I have all of these responsibilities, and I don’t want to let my authors down. So, there’s that, and then I have my own books to make sure I maintain for my readers, and I’m still following that dream, and I do still have many foreign translation contracts that I fulfill every year. So what I like to do is start out with, you know, something slow in the morning, I always do our social media accounts, make sure we’re posting, doing things, checking email, and then from there, I like to get into whatever edits we have for our authors. Make sure everybody is doing okay. We’re ahead of schedule, and I’ll usually do two to three hours of writing in the late afternoon. We have three interns who are amazing, who help me out when we get backed up, and two other editors beside me. One of them is an author, the other one’s a blogger earning a bachelor’s degree in journalism. We try to make sure we have a balance between work and whatnot.
Emma Plutnicki 24:25
We maintain that, because I’m sure working from home doesn’t make it easy to separate the work from just your normal day-to-day life, and I’m sure creativity strikes at different times of day and night. So how are you able to kind of have time for your work, and then also have time for yourself?
Kelly Moran 24:43
It’s really difficult. You have to be very detail oriented. I have a number of my writers who have day jobs, and then they write at night, which is what I used to do. And for me, I’ve always been obsessively organized, would probably be a good way to put it. So, I have schedules. My schedules have schedules, and those have post-it notes that have their own post-it notes. I make myself follow a schedule, because if I can’t do that, then things go crazy. You just have to set boundaries and stick to them, and set a schedule and stick to it, especially if you’re working a full-time job away from your writing career or your publishing aspirations. A lot of people feel really bad because they go to three days without writing or typing something on a page, but you can’t fix a blank page. I mean, writers probably have one of the best and toughest jobs.
Emma Plutnicki 27:06
Yeah, it’s hard.
Kelly Moran 27:10
I mean, unless you’re an actor or a journalist, what other job is there where, when your day is done, every single person in the world can leave a review about you. I mean, it’s cutthroat. Let’s say you’re a mechanic, right? Imagine going to the shop every day and you’re changing brakes and oil and transmission work, and then every person whose car you fixed then went on to the largest platform on the planet and says, “One star.” I didn’t like his overalls. That’s how it is.
Emma Plutnicki 28:05
I can imagine you must have tough skin to, you know, brave in those reviews?
Kelly Moran 28:12
A dream is a dream, and that’s just one of the things that a lot of people need to take into consideration. A lot of authors don’t even read their reviews for that reason. They don’t even look at one of them. I will, on occasion, pop onto Goodreads or Amazon, but I try not to anymore.
Emma Plutnicki 28:35
Oh man, oh my gosh, yeah. I don’t know if I could, uh, restrain myself from reading them. But, um, perfect. Well, just as we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to add about your career advice or anything like that?
Kelly Moran 28:51
Follow your dream? It’s the cheesiest, most cliche thing out there on the planet. Learn your craft, join some writer groups, meet a couple of writer friends, and they don’t have to be in your area. I mean, in this day and age, zoom, or, you know, Facebook chat or whatever. Meet some other authors. Learn how it’s done. We do get a lot of authors who don’t even bother reading our submission page before they send it to us, and I’m sorry, but if you can’t take the time to at least think about what we need from you to submit, then that tells me you’re not going to be open to the other things that need to be done later on. When you’re submitting to agents and publishers, follow their guidelines, because every single one is going to have something different. Think about what your goals are. If this is something you want to do, definitely think about the degree you are earning and how you can get into that world, earning a paycheck while you’re working on your book, while you’re working on submitting and any of things like that. That would be my best advice. I had, I want to say it was something like 80 agent rejections before I got mine. And yeah, and I’ve had a number of small presses all the way up to big five rejections, and most of those came from the series that got me the Spiegel bestseller in Germany, and lots and lots of royalties afterwards. And when you’re stuck, move on to something else. We’re authors, we’ve always got something going on in our heads. Don’t feel dejected, because this is one of the toughest markets to break into.
Emma Plutnicki 31:37
That’s great advice. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the time and words of wisdom. I’m sure this will definitely help some people who want to become authors in the future. So, I really appreciate it. Thank you. Bye.
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Megan Koon
“Everything I produce could only come from me, and so it is a personal contribution.”
Megan Koon is an editor, coach, and author Megan Koon is on a mission to help others tell the stories only they can write.
Interview
Transcript
Megan Koon 00:02
So to start, what do you do for work and where are you currently working from? So for work, I am a professional writer, a writing coach and an editor, and I work from Simpsonville, South Carolina.
Emma Plutnicki 00:18
Nice and how long have you been doing that for?
Megan Koon 00:21
Well, I’ve been a professional writer at least part time for I guess, I published my first novel in 2019 so around that time, and then I recently in November, decided to go full time with professional writing, writing coaching and editing and all the good storytelling stuff. Nice, exciting. So what is a typical day look like for you? What’s expected of you, and what do you got into on a daily basis? So a typical day for me is, well, I have children too, so I get up going, but then when it becomes time for professional work, I find a place to work that is not my house, because I am not a productive person in my home. So I like to work from coffee shops as a writer. It’s great to be immersed in different kinds of people and hear conversations and see dynamics. So I really like to work from coffee shops, sometimes the library, if I need to lock in, but so I’ll go to wherever it is I’ve decided to work that day, sometimes outside as well, and then I usually spend a couple of hours working on a piece that I’m editing. Often that’s followed by a meeting with whoever I’m editing for. I just recently finished editing a or- developmental editing a young adult novel. So I met with the writer recently, and then I take a break for lunch, and then I like to spend my time writing my own stuff or working on podcast ideas, because that’s something new that I’m working on and yeah, and then often in the late afternoons, after school. I also work with kids. So I will go and work with kids. I work with kids who who have dyslexia and dysgraphia, so they struggle to read and write and so I’ll work with them after school, typically. So that’s, that’s my day. It’s a whole bunch of words.
Emma Plutnicki 02:21
Yeah amazing. And so you put on a lot of hats throughout your day and have to deal with your family and everything. So how are you able to maintain a healthy work life balance? Because I’m sure also creativity strikes at different times. So how are you able to manage that?
Megan Koon 02:38
Yes, that’s a really good question. And honestly, that is an acquired skill that takes time to figure out, because you’re right. Like creativity strikes at random and often inconvenient times, which is one reason I always have my notebook with me. I have a notebook with me at all times, everything, everything’s in here, and so that way I can scribble down or write something or make notes as I go, no matter where I am. But I think that most importantly, when I first started doing this work, I really overbooked myself. I was taking on clients right and left. I was so concerned about making enough money to support myself, that I was just like grasping for people, and then I realized that that was taking a toll just on me and my mental health and all of that. And so I keep a pretty standard schedule every day, like there are blocks of my time, just like anybody else would go to work, I block off segments of my time. This is when I work on this. This is when I work on that, and I try to keep to those unless something comes up. So I think that having a regular schedule, even though this kind of work is more freelance and, you know, I report to myself, I still block off those times, and that’s been really helpful.
Emma Plutnicki 04:02
Yeah makes sense. And is there any like local professional community in South Carolina that you lean on? Is there like a group of authors or anything like that?
Megan Koon 04:12
Yeah, so, so there are, there are many groups here. I have just a group of local writers that I have a writing partner who I’ve been writing with for years. She writes screenplays and does short films. I write novels, but we, I mean, we both, we’re both storytellers, so I’ve been working with her for years. And then I also am part of a local group with poets, novelists, playwrights, who just get together, and support and accountability is important too. So there is a lot of local support here. There are certainly national organizations that I could belong to and subscriptions that you can have, but I’ve really found so much validation and support just here in the community, you just have to, you have to seek it, because sometimes these kinds of of groups are not advertising themselves out in the community. So. Yeah, makes sense. And along the way, have individuals in that community, or maybe family members or any other mentors given you any advice along the way, whether positive or negative? Yeah, so so both I have certainly being in a creative field. There are plenty of folks who, for whatever reason that I certainly will never understand, don’t see this kind of work as as valid as something like I was a teacher for 20 years, so as something like that, or where I go somewhere else, and I report to someone, and I do my work. It’s hard for people who are not creatives to conceptualize what it is that I do and and why it’s important and like how I support myself. So certainly over time, I’ve had people give advice out of the goodness of their hearts, but with an obvious non understanding of what I do, why it’s important. But also, I’ve gotten some great advice from those that I’ve worked with, whether it was my novel that I published, and I knew something was missing from it, and I had a friend read it and said, “Oh, well, obviously it needs this”. And I’m like, oh yes, obviously it does. And then I put it in, and then we got published. And then also friends in the writing world who are also more astute in like, marketing areas who have said, “Yeah, you should absolutely start this podcast”. Here’s how you should do it. Here’s how. There’s some tiers. So the thing about creatives, too, is that we bring a lot to the experience, beside, just, besides, just whatever our creative ability, like our creative talent, is. I mean, I’m a writer, but having been a teacher for years, I’m a great communicator. I can help explain things. Some of my friends who are writers have marketing backgrounds or, you know, all kinds of things. And so that’s the nice thing about a community of creatives, is that we bring a whole lot of experience to each other.
Emma Plutnicki 07:21
Yeah, for sure. And so when you you were a teacher, and then you decided to become a full time author. Did you have any fears when you made that switch?
Megan Koon 07:29
Yes, it was terrifying, because as sure, you know it’s it’s regular hours, it’s a regular paycheck. I loved teaching. I loved what I was doing. I taught English, surprise, surprise, and I loved doing that work, but I also realized that I was so busy and I committed so much of myself to that work that there was no time for this part of who I am, and I have, since I was teeny tiny, I have known that I am a writer, it is what I am supposed to do. I’m supposed to help other people write, and I did that as a teacher. But, you know, in addition, there were so many other responsibilities. So really, I feel that I was really nervous, but I was taking the bits of my teaching career that I loved the most, and I think are the most important, and deciding to make all of that the absolute focus of my time, and also to be able to devote more time to my own creativity, which just makes me a happier, healthier person. But I was certainly afraid, because it sounds and to my family, it also sounded like this unstable thing, because there are no set work hours. There’s no cont- like one contract that I sign, and so there was some nerve in that. But I’m a person who- I truly believe that if you know yourself and you know what gifts you’ve been given, and you feel compelled by those and you’re using them for good, then the universe will help you make your way. And so I took the leap and and I mean not to say that there haven’t been bumpy times where I’m like, “oh gosh, really is that that’s that’s the amount of income I brought to our family this month” or “why can’t I find more clients right now?” And there’s certainly those moments, but I have learned through this experience that because I am doing what I am supposed to do, things are shaking out, and not even just shaking out, but thriving now, so yeah.
Emma Plutnicki 09:34
Amazing. So although you may have those bumps in the road, has there been one project that you’ve worked on that has had a significant impact on you, whether it showcased your like, peak of your creativity, or just continues to leave a lasting impact on your life?
Megan Koon 09:52
Yeah, that’s a great question. So there are certainly projects that I’ve worked on just my own writing novel writing that I, I love them, I haven’t complete. They’re finished, but not finished. So I have not submitted them for publication or anything, but I I feel very they feel very organic for me and very defining. But I would also say that part of what I do with as a writing coach to help other people write their novels or poetry collections, all kinds of things. Is a book that I just finished, I just finished doing an edit, and now the author has hired me into a writing coach retainer. And as I was working on this book, I this was when I was certain, like, this is exactly what I should be doing besides my own writing, I already know I should be doing that, but I love this work. I loved reading his work, and I loved being able to being able to make big suggestions. It was developmental editing, so I basically went in there and said, “Hey, you have two books here. It’s not one book. You’ve written two, and so we need to chop it in half and do all this”. And I felt so- it made me feel very confident myself, because I was certain that I was correct in all of these things, and I knew that I was helping, and he was so receptive, and so that that project was very affirming, that I not only do I know that I have gifts for writing and I know that I can help people write, but that I really can help people with their their their own career and life defining projects, and that’s awesome. Yeah and so do you feel, I mean, in a creative field, it’s hard sometimes to know what success looks like. So how do you define professional or personal success? Is it moments like that where you just feel fulfilled helping somebody? Is it more financial, ideological? How do you define success in a creative career? That’s such a great question. I’m really glad you asked that, because having taught for many years, I taught high school, and you would ask the students what success was, and they would always say, you know, it’s this income, or it’s being able to live in this kind of neighborhood. And while, of course, there is a part of success that’s able to independently support yourself, for sure, in the creative field, I would say that for me success, I see success in many different ways, but it usually has to do with- either conveying my story and having someone respond to it, and it meant something to them. So, you know, I publish a book, and people read it and they’re like, “oh, this reminded me of, you know, where I grew up”, or “this was so relatable”, like that success. When I’m helping someone with their writing, they’re- they come back with a revision, and they’re so excited, because they really have accomplished this big thing, and that is success to me, because if nothing, I mean, I I’m, I think I’m a pretty good editor, but I, by all, I am an encourager and cheerleader for everybody to tell their story. I was at a career day for an elementary school recently, and I told them all like the most important thing in life to me is storytelling, whether that whether you and and we do that in many different ways. I do it with words. Some people do visual arts. I mean, some people vocally give talks and whatever it is, but everybody has their own individual story. No one could have ever told your story. No one else will ever be able to tell your story, and the world needs stories. So success, to me, is in any way helping to put stories into the world, whether it’s through my own writing, or helping someone else do it, because I really feel like that. That’s what we need as people, is to have those kinds of connections that we can only get through stories.
Emma Plutnicki 14:02
Yeah I love that. That’s a great perspective to have. Amazing so just as we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to add, any advice or anything like that?
Megan Koon 14:13
I would just say that I am in my 40s now. I’ve been writing for a really long time, and I’ve done some other things in the meantime. Teaching, actually worked in IT for a little while, which is very funny, but I was doing communications, so um, and all of that has been well and good, but I am so grateful that I’ve come to the place where I can make space in my life to pursue these creative pursuits, and I wish that I had had more support for it earlier, like when I was growing up from my family or, you know. And so my advice to folks is that if they want to pursue a career in something creative, then know that this is in fact a career. It’s a career it is just as valid as any other career, and it’s, it is one of the most important careers, because we do need stories and we need things of beauty in the world and the the wonderful thing about being a creative is that everything I produce could only come from me, and so it is a personal contribution, but I would just say that if you’re going along and you want to pursue a creative career, and people are acting as if it’s not as valuable, or what does that really mean? If I hear the phrase starving artist one more time, I’m going to just start screeching, but just ignore the naysayers, like you know what you were created to do. You know what your gifts are, and go for them. It’s a legitimate career field, and you should spend your career doing something you love, because that’s how we all spend most of our day as you know, adult, grown up people so do what you love and don’t let detractors try to tell you that it’s not significant, because it really is.
Emma Plutnicki 16:03
Yeah, thank you. That’s great advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak about your career, and you clearly love it. So it’s really refreshing to hear.
Megan Koon 16:13
Yay! Thank you. [inaudible ] ask me! Of course!
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Carol Baker
“I gotta do the right fit for me, because ultimately I’m the one who’s got to show up and do it every day.”
Carol Baker is the Director of Outreach and Community Engagement at the South Carolina Governor’s School for the Arts and Humanities.
Interview
Transcript
Lexi Raines 00:02
Okay, so first, I’m just going to ask you to introduce yourself. What do you do for what do you do for work? And where are you currently working from?
Carol Baker 00:10
So I- My name is Carol Baker. I am the Director of Outreach and Community Engagement at the South Carolina Governor School for the Arts and Humanities.
Lexi Raines 00:20
That’s awesome. So how long have you been working there?
Carol Baker 00:23
Yeah, so I’ve been there since 2012 so my first school year, we think in school years a lot, was the 12-13 academic year.
Lexi Raines 00:31
Awesome. So what’s one thing that you love about working there, working as like a creative in South Carolina?
Carol Baker 00:41
So I- our school has a statewide mission, which is great, because that means I get to be in all kinds of different communities and all kinds of different places. What I love about South Carolina is I think there’s a really strong identity. So there’s a there’s there feels like there’s a strong statewide identity, for sure. And people who are from South Carolina are really proud of that, like, we’ve got some really amazing things here. But if you have a chance to go into all of these smaller towns, or medium sized towns, or, you know, urban, rural, we have such a wide range. And what you see in the upstate might look totally different from what you see in the low country, and it’s such a, I don’t know when you get to do community engagement work like that. It’s such a joy to get to see all of that and see the different creatives and creative people and the ways that different people approach their their sort of communication, and how they show up for themselves.
Lexi Raines 01:31
I completely agree. I feel like South Carolina is a very dynamic state, and yeah, that’s part of what we’re trying to showcase. So what do you think South Carolina brings to, like, your work? Like, does it have like, unique influences on you compared to being anywhere else?
Carol Baker 01:49
It does. You know, my job is kind of like a mix of things. So I do, I do community engagement, right? There’s building and working in communities. There’s arts education specialty, like I’m an arts education specialist, so that’s my field, that’s my area. And then there’s also just arts management, right? There’s leadership and understanding how to work in a budget and how to write a grant, and all of those things too. It’s kind of a nice mix of things. And one of the things I think South Carolina is really special in and really what it offers is unique- Is a very, very vibrant arts education community. So we have got strong arts education leadership. We’ve got bipartisan support. We have opportunities to advocate. We have opportunities to learn how to be better at our jobs. There’s an arts education community here that’s very It’s tight knit, it’s strong and it’s supportive. It’s, it’s, you know, not as competitive as you might see in other areas. So, and having sort of seen it from the outside, you know, especially when you travel, you go to other states, and they’re like, you have what? I’m like, yeah. So this whole ecosystem here that is really unique to South Carolina?
Lexi Raines 03:01
Yeah I feel like that is very important. Because I feel like the support that young creatives have, like, oftentimes rely on, like, their teachers and just their direct community around them. So yeah, I think that’s really awesome. Yeah, so how would you describe that local professional community?
Carol Baker 03:24
Yeah so for me, local is interesting work, because I have a state mission, and in many ways, my my professional community is actually a statewide community, and not just a local, you know, down the street or in my neighborhood, kind of professional community. What I see is support, which is amazing, people who are willing to cultivate leadership, which I think is important, but also a willingness to kind of allow people to do what they do best. So we have different people who do different things, and as a result, I don’t have to feel like I have to do everything, which is a great feeling. I know I can pick up the phone and call somebody in my professional community and ask for help, or ask for support, or say, hey, students were really kind of outside my my lane. Can I call on you to help? And the answer will be yes, because we have such a supportive community. So the other thing is, I think we’re a little bit of a bunch of misfits, which I think artists kind of are in a lot of ways. You know, there’s only one me. I’m the only one who does what I do. There’s only one person who does XYZ job over here and XYZ over job over there. And in order to, like, build community and have community like, you need to be able to have those individual kind of personalities and roles come together, because otherwise, I think you could feel pretty isolated. So it’s a very deliberate and purposeful community.
Lexi Raines 04:49
Yes, I feel like in like bigger cities such as like New York or Los Angeles, I feel like there is some type of community unity, but it’s, I feel like it’s definitely not as involved as the one that we have here. Because I feel like, at the end of the day, everyone there is trying to get ahead of each other, where here, I’ve heard this a lot through all my interviews, that everyone’s just wants to support each other and help each other out. So I think that’s absolutely awesome. Yeah. So how would you define professional or personal success in your creative endeavors or at your work?
Carol Baker 05:30
Yeah, so 97% of what I do is collaborative. I do very, very few things in a bubble, by myself in a vacuum. So for me, and this is going to sound maybe a little bit heady, but it actually, it actually is, the most crucial piece of it is trust. I have to know that people trust me, and I have to be able to trust other people. So for me, success is when that trust is cultivated and we have a relationship that is built around that. Because community, any kind of community work, whether it’s in the arts or any, you know, in, you know, hospital outreach, whatever community work you’re doing, you have to work with people. It. That’s the whole function of community, right? So when I when I have somebody pick up the phone and call me and say, Hey, I don’t know the answer to this, but I figured you either would know or could help me find the right person that shows that I have developed a trust relationship with that person or that community, and they know that they can call me and we’ll stand with them and figure it out. So that, to me, actually is probably the biggest sign of success.
Lexi Raines 06:37
Yeah, I completely agree. Trust is just so so so important. So you said you’re an arts education like, that’s like your main field. So what was your biggest fear when you decided to, like that you wanted to pursue the arts or being a arts education teacher? I feel like it can be, like, very scary.
Carol Baker 07:01
Yeah I think for me, and I probably still deal with this to a certain degree, is a little bit of imposter syndrome, and also some definite sense of there’s a very specific path you’re supposed to take with this certification and this type of degree and this type of educational outcome, right? Like and if you don’t have those boxes checked, then you’re not really a part of that field, right? And that’s actually not necessarily the case. I’m not a certified teacher, which is interesting. I have a teaching artist background and a management of education background. So when you look at these traditional paths and you kind of think, Oh, well, those people, they must know something I don’t know, or there’s they probably are better at something than I am. I think there, I think if there was a lot of reminding myself that there are other ways to go about doing things and still be a part of a community. So yeah, you know those traditional paths, they are critical. And I don’t, I do not say don’t do that. They’re fantastic. And also there are other ways as well. So it kind of takes, I think, a lot of different ways to approach a problem.
Lexi Raines 08:08
I completely agree that’s one of the main things that we want to do, is to show that there’s not just one set way to get somewhere as a creative there’s so many different paths. There’s people who went to school for something in STEM and then later decided to pursue the arts, right? It’s just such a dynamic range, and it changes all the time. So I definitely understand how it can be scary, but I feel like there is so much of that support here and people to lean on, yeah, so please, can you, like, describe a defining moment that you’ve had in your career?
Carol Baker 08:47
Sure. You know, I saw that question last night, and I was like, gosh, I feel like there’s a million, and I don’t even know how I would pick one, but I think, I think I would pick something that’s actually happening now that we started in 2016 but it’s important, because actually everything in my career path sort of led up to it, so I’m currently- so as the Outreach Director, we run a lot of different types of programs, right? We have, you know, just a wide range of things that you can kind of choose from, if you’re a teacher or an after school provider. One of the programs is called Spark, and it is a program that uses drama strategies to support literacy. So reading, writing, oral communication, all of that, primarily reading is what we’re mostly interested in, but getting kids up on their feet and using playful strategies and using creative strategies instead of that. Hey, not everybody wants to sit and read a book. I personally love to sit in read a book, but that’s me. I understand that that’s when you’re eight years old. You need to move your body and you get it, you need to physically embody and understand what’s happening. I could not have known that that was going to be an opportunity for me when I started this a million years ago. But what’s interesting is that if I look at my path, where. I started was and when folks asked me my art form, I started in story. I started in the development of story, of why and how people tell stories. You know, I started leaning into the management of these kinds of programs. How do you build them? How do you structure them? How do you find funding for them? What do people need? Data do people need in order to believe you and trust you, right? How do you work with teachers to, you know, provide professional development services and all of that, I didn’t, I didn’t and couldn’t, have known that this would be an opportunity for me. And yet, everything that I was doing was pointing me in that path. And so when I look at it, I’m like, “Oh my gosh”. Like, that’s exactly what I was supposed to be doing all along. I just didn’t know, and yet, now I’m in it. I’m like, Well, this is exactly what I’m supposed to be doing. This is where my choices led me. So I feel like as a defining moment, that’s an important piece to say, “Hey, I didn’t know I was going somewhere, but the things that I cared about and trusted enough to learn about led me to the right place”. That’s awesome. I feel like that is such a comforting feeling at the end of the day to look back and be like I was supposed to be here. My path led me to this. And I feel like that also goes back to what you’re saying about imposter syndrome, because, like, you got yourself here at the end of the day, like you- Right, exactly, right.
Lexi Raines 11:30
So also, can I ask you, what is the best and worst advice you’ve ever received?
Carol Baker 11:36
Yeah, so probably the best advice actually got two pieces of really good advice, but that would say the best advice for a community person and it was actually said, go to the kids. Always go to the kids. The idea was so I was, at that point, I was debating between working in more of an education setting or more of like an arts setting in education, like a performing arts center that has education programs, slightly different, dynamics, very similar, and either one would is they’re both great. But regardless of that, at that time, the advice was, don’t ever assume a child or a community member or a person that you’re working with is going to come to you. Your job is to go to them. It is to be in their community. It is to trust their decision making. It is to recognize what they need. It is not that they come into your space. And that advice was given to me specific about school kids. You know, we’re talking about school kids. Well, where do they go every day? They go to school every day. So like, how do we work with schools? Right? But it actually is true for any community, right? No matter what you’re doing, community driven work is about the other person. It’s not about you, it’s about what they need, what they’re asking for, what they’re assessing within their own situation, right? So I think that was the best advice I’ve never I can’t actually call up the worst advice, but I do have a thing that I think is probably falls in that category. I was very lucky. I grew up in a family of musicians and community service people, people who worked in nonprofits and arts and all this stuff. So in some ways, what I do makes complete sense, right product of my environment. Not everybody has that, you know, experience. But what was interesting to me was the expectation so they were musicians. The the expectation was that I would go into music. That was just it. There was no question about it. It was never said. It was never even a thing. It was just kind of, well, that’s what’s going to happen. It was almost like a the world around me had just decided this for me, right? Yeah, I spent a lot of time in my early adult years really trying to figure out the difference between what other people expected from me and what I needed for myself creatively. That was never going to be my gig. It doesn’t mean I don’t love it, because I do. I’m actually interested in all the arts, but especially interested in all the performing arts. Very interested in stories. I’m very interested in how we embody stories, right? So if I had sort of allowed that sort of wave to direct where I was going, I wouldn’t be as happy as I am. And so I think there is a necessity to evaluate yourself and your own needs as well as what’s actually available to you, right? Like, because I was, again, I was looking at parents who were like, That’s cool. Go a different direction. That’s fine. The community at large, that was actually also kind of interesting, because people knew who we were, and there was an expectation that, oh, she said, I probably do that. That was not the right thing for me. And so I say that, to say that there are social expectations and social dynamics that we all face, regardless of what they are, whether you want to be a musician or chiropractor or whatever it’s still, there’s a certain. Level of I got to do the right fit for me, because this is, ultimately, I’m the one every who’s got to show up and do it every day at the end of the day. So I think that was, I wouldn’t say it’s bad advice, but it was almost like a very quiet assumption that had to be pushed against.
Lexi Raines 15:16
Yeah, and I feel like there’s a lot of things that are true for like, a lot of students like that, like, I know, for me personally, I came into school with a computer science degree because kind of growing up, my whole family was like, you can do anything, but don’t do anything in the arts because you’ll never make money. So and I feel like that’s how it is for, like, so many students everywhere. And then I was miserable in that, like, so miserable because, like, that’s just not what I wanted to do. That’s what other people wanted me to do. Wasn’t what I wanted to do. And so I ended up switching to English, and I’m, like, significantly, significantly happier. Like, I’ve never missed computer science a day in my life, right, right? So I when I ended up telling my mom she was okay with it, because she was like, at the end of the day, it’s, it’s your life. But I feel like just having any ounce of support is from your family, from a community, is so, so important.
Carol Baker 16:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the things when I was trying to decide my degree, I’m also an English I had an English major and did some arts management as well. Never heard of arts management. I just fell into it as an elective at school, because I was interested in writing and publishing and, you know, the arts and all this kind of stuff. But I remember my dad was told me one time. He was like, you know, what do you not want to do? Let’s focus on that first. Get that out of the way so that we don’t end up accidentally doing something that sounds horrible, right? Like, sometimes you don’t know what you do want to do, but you definitely know what you don’t want to do. Yes, which I thought was another, another good piece of advice.
Lexi Raines 16:57
So I completely agree that’s, that’s something really good to go off of, yeah. Okay, so can you walk me through a typical work day?
Carol Baker 17:08
Yeah, I can do my best. So a typical work day for me? Actually, one of the joys of this job is that I don’t have a super typical work day, which I love. Like each day could look different than it did the day before, but the kind of broad strokes things that are generally expected of me during a day, we have a lot of public facing documents. There’s a good bit of reading, writing and editing that has to happen, making sure that you know, you don’t accidentally say 2004 instead of 2024 which may or may not have happened to me just last week and a document, there’s also a lot of advocacy work that gets done, so whether that’s internally within my own leadership team, and I have amazing support here, so that’s not a huge thing, but there’s just a reminder of what does it mean to be a community person, like an explanation of, sort of the back end, that these things don’t magically happen Every day. There’s budgets that have to go behind them. There’s, you know, procurement and purchasing that has to happen. There are rules about what you can and cannot do in a public school that I’m responsible for making sure that my team follows. You know, do we have media releases on this kit these kids before we take photos of them? So a lot of the stuff that I do is actually an ef- in and done in an effort to make sure that my teaching artists, who work for me can actually teach so they focus on the teaching. My job is to say, Do you have the right lesson plan in place? Do you understand what you know? Have we aligned this appropriately with the standard so that the teacher that you’re visiting will have a quality lesson and a quality experience. Do we need to go explore a grant option and make sure that we have written that correctly so that a donor and we’re gathering the right data for that donor? So there’s a lot of back end work that happens. There’s also a good bit of travel that happens as well. That’s a part of the job. And I remember during COVID, I was like, a community director is meant to be in their community. So there’s just being out with people and in their, you know, local restaurants or their schools or their after school clubs is a big part of it as well. Yeah, that
Lexi Raines 19:17
sounds very busy, but it sounds like very, very engaging. That is what we do, community engagement. But I feel like it sounds just so interesting to always be out there in the community see what’s going on. So that’s awesome. Yeah. What are some habits that you have that you think would be beneficial for others wanting to join your field?
Carol Baker 19:42
I think one of the things that’s super important is a very clear awareness of yourself and how you function, because the this type of job can wear you out really fast. You spend a lot of time in the car, you spend a lot of time in hotels, you spend a lot of time in other people’s environments and that also is- Goes to your creativity practice as well, right? Like, if you’re going to maintain boundaries and all of those things, you need to know yourself well enough to know I probably can’t actually drive that far and what, even though I could five years ago, maybe I can’t do that now. Or I need to make sure I stay in a hotel that has this kind of situation, right? Like those personal boundaries have to actually really be strong and in place if you’re going to be in a position where you’re constantly giving and putting out. Because if you don’t do that, you’re just going to run yourself run yourself ragged. And I think the other piece is really knowing what you can and cannot provide. You know, we have folks, and be clear about that. You know, we have folks who will call. We don’t have this as much now, but when we were first kind of trying to decide on some things, outreach can look and community engagement can look like. So many things, there’s a million ways to do it, and they’re all great like that doesn’t mean one is better than the other, but you have within your capacity, whether it’s budget wise, staffing wise, just human capacity right to show up for you have what you have. So if you if somebody calls and asks for one thing and you can’t meet that need, it’s actually okay to say, I love that you have that need I can’t meet it, but let me help you find someone who can, because you’ll just end up being like, Oh no, this person needs something, and this person needs something, and you have to have pretty clear professional and personal boundaries. I would say boundaries, I think is the biggest, the biggest answer to that probably.
Lexi Raines 21:36
Yeah, I I completely, complete. I feel like that’s an amazing piece of advice, because I feel like so many people do struggle with setting those boundaries. So is that like, how you would say you created your like, work life balance?
Carol Baker 21:52
Yeah, in a lot of ways, and I think also, you know, for me and this, this might look different depending on the kind of artists or creative that you are. I consider myself more of a creative than an artist, but artist, but I’m more interested in the process than I am in the product. So I’m not the type of person who’s that worried about getting my thing that I’ve done, my piece that I’ve written, or whatever, exactly right? Because I’m not that interested in putting it out so that 20,000 people listen to it. I do it more for myself and my own sort of creative expression and my own mental health and well being and personal curiosity, right? That means that I’m more flexible. I can do it more places. I don’t have to. I’m not tied to a rehearsal that’s happening at the theater down the street or whatever, right? So that’s that’s unique to me. And some people are like that. Some people are in the other direction. That’s totally cool. One of the things I think that’s fun about this job, though, is that you get to go into all these communities, and you get to participate in their cultural stuff, which is fantastic. So you get your needs met in a lot of ways, because you’re exploring the culture. You can go to the local museum while you’re in Barnwell. You can go to the local art festival while you’re in Georgetown, right? You can do those things because you’re there, and that’s actually part of your job, which is fabulous, right? So I would say that a lot of it is taking advantage of what’s immediately in front of you, in terms of your creative outlets, practices, things that you want to explore. You know, there is nothing wrong with a great night in a hotel room working on crafting a piece of something that you might not even do at home. Because when you’re at home, you’re like, how do the dishes, right? Like, it’s kind of, I don’t know, it’s kind of nice to kind of have an escape to a certain degree.
Lexi Raines 23:34
Yeah, that’s a really, yes. That’s a really, like, fun and interesting mindset that like, I haven’t really heard heard of a lot, but I feel like that’s definitely a good thing to keep in mind when you are traveling so much and it’s for work. Why when you work creatively, why not find stuff to do within what you’re already doing? So Right? I feel like that is an amazing mindset to have so almost my last question, so, do you have, like, any questions that you wish you were asked?
Carol Baker 24:12
I think the one thing I would say, I don’t know if it’s a question, but I think the one thing that would say is that it’s okay if you are not a specific artist within a specific area. So, like, if you’re not an assistant block yet, I’m trying to think of an example. But if you’re not an oboe player, right? Like, and you have this very clear defined thing, I’m an oboe player. This is what I am. It’s okay if you’re not that, it’s okay to say, I love all of the arts. I love all of maybe I don’t love all of the arts. Maybe I love everything that has to do the writing. Or maybe I love everything that has to do with the performing arts. Or, oh my gosh, I I just love three different things, right? Like, I think this idea that an artist and a creative has to be. Assigned to a specific thing is, is good. There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s plenty of people who do that. I work in a school that supports that, so I want to be really clear, like, even my school here, that’s what we do for kids, is we’re like, that’s your passion. Let me help you go deep with that. Not everybody’s going to do that. Some people will also be in the broader sort of multi art kind of domain, or the hyphenate artist, or whatever it is that you’re considering. That’s also great too. There are plenty of roles for that. I think I may have mentioned this earlier, but when I first started working, I people would ask me my art form, and I’d say, “Well, you know, primarily drama, but really it’s story”. And that was, that was, that was a thing people be like, when you type what? That doesn’t fall in the box, right? But it actually is the connecting piece between all the art forms that I’m interested in. I’m interested in how artists and creatives tell stories. So it’s, I think it’s one of those things to remember that all of those things are important, right? It’s a pie. It’s a puzzle. We need those deep dive people in order to be in the symphony, and we need those deep dive people to make beautiful pieces of photography or whatever. And also we need other people who can help pull it all together from sort of a different perspective. So we just toss that out there.
Lexi Raines 26:22
No, I can- I completely agree with that. I feel like also, when you are just you’re only limiting yourself to one thing, I feel like you can, kind of like hinder yourself from other opportunities or other things you might end up loving even more than you love one thing so and I feel like I feel like interdisciplinary artists are definitely growing in popularity, because people are finally realizing, “oh, I can do everything I want to everything that I love. I don’t just have to market myself towards one thing” which is absolutely awesome.
Carol Baker 26:59
You know, I’ve actually most of the folks, when I was kind of coming along, were exceptionally skilled in multiple art forms. I mean, it was mind boggling to me, and I was like, Oh, you’re actually an artist. Like, that’s here. Let’s zoom up and talk about it as, like an artist versus this or that and I don’t- and again, I those that does not mean that those other things aren’t valuable. It means that we need all of them, and if we just focus on one or we just focus on the other, then we’re missing the point, right? But I love the term creative. I love the idea of the creative as a type of individual, right? Like it just kind of kind of shakes it out a little bit and gives you some room to breathe. If that is the right place for you to be.
Lexi Raines 27:44
I completely, I completely agree with that. So my last question for you is, do you have a creative or an artist that you would like to nominate to be interviewed?
Carol Baker 27:57
I do actually have two. Can I nominate 2? Am I allowed to do that?
Lexi Raines 27:59
Yeah, let me get a pen and paper.
Carol Baker 28:02
They’re both affiliated with the Governor’s School, so I don’t know if that is I don’t know how you make your decisions about who you choose, but-
Lexi Raines 28:08
Okay, I’m ready.
Carol Baker 28:10
So the first one is Dr Cedric Adderly, C, E, D, R, I, C, A, D, E, R, L, E, Y. He’s the Governor School’s president, and he is also a so he’s an educator, but also a composer. And, you know, just has a really cool, interesting story and dynamic to tell the others. Anne Tretromsness: TR and with an E, and then T, R, O, M, S, N, E, S, S, to look up at the sky, to follow the letters. How do I spell that?
Lexi Raines 28:45
Okay, so wait, S N, what is that?
Carol Baker 28:50
Yeah, so it’s, let’s start the beginning, T, R, O,M, S N, as in no, E, S, S, Tromsness.
Lexi Raines 29:01
Okay awesome.
Carol Baker 29:02
Yeah, she is on our faculty here, but she’s been an educator in lots of different settings, but she’s also an active director and active performer, very much into social justice type movements. Just a really all around interesting. She was Teacher of the Year for Greenville County. I think they both have just really nice, interesting stories. I think, yeah, what you’re looking for, I don’t know what you’re looking for, but I don’t even know how I ended up here. So there you go. How does this happen? So, yeah
Lexi Raines 29:33
Yeah so you were nominated. I could, could probably pull up who you were nominated by, actually, because we can tell you. You were nominated by Thurraya.
Carol Baker 29:45
Oh, okay, great, yes.
Lexi Raines 29:46
And then we also actually do have Dr Cedric on or Dr Adderley on our nominations list.
Carol Baker 29:54
So I figured he probably, I think I have actually nominated him before in some other capacity, so that’s good. Yes. So they’re very different individuals from each other, but, you know, they’ve got really great stories. Yeah,
Lexi Raines 30:05
That’s awesome. So I’m going to be sending you a follow up email eventually, if, in that email, I’ll also ask in there you could connect like Ann’s email, because we already have Dr Adderley’s email, okay, just so that we can look into her a little bit more and put her on our list to reach out to.
Carol Baker 30:31
Yeah, absolutely.
Lexi Raines 30:32
Thank you so much for your time.
Carol Baker 30:34
Yes!
Lexi Raines 30:34
I loved interviewing you, its really awesome, and-
Carol Baker 30:37
I’m glad good time too. So thank you.
Lexi Raines 30:39
Thank you. Have a good day.
Carol Baker 30:41
You too. Bye.
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Angela Yemi Gibson
“A closed mouth doesn’t get fed. You gotta ask.”
Angela Yemi Gibson is a medical biller by day and an arts visionary by night: founder of a nonprofit African Dance Company in Spartanburg, SC.
Audio Interview
Transcript
00:02
Emma Plutnicki: So to start, what do you do for work and where are you currently working from?
00:07
Angela Yemi Gibson: I work from home. I am a medical biller, and I work for a billing company called Medical Billing Center Incorporated,
00:16
Emma Plutnicki: Okay, amazing. How long have you been working there?
00:18
Angela Yemi Gibson: Six years.
00:20
Emma Plutnicki: Okay, amazing. And that’s based in South Carolina?
00:23
Angela Yemi Gibson: Yes, it is in South Carolina.
00:25
Emma Plutnicki: Okay, how does working in South Carolina specifically influence your work, if at all?
00:32
Angela Yemi Gibson: Well, I have a nonprofit that I do outside of this, but, you know, being a nonprofit, you have to at least have some type of stream. So I do both. I don’t know, I moved here from Colorado, so it’s a little different,
00:48
Emma Plutnicki: Okay, yeah. And what is your nonprofit?
00:52
Angela Yemi Gibson: My nonprofit is an African Dance Company.
00:54
Emma Plutnicki: Okay, amazing and how long have you been doing that for?
00:57
Angela Yemi Gibson: Over 20 years!
00:59
Emma Plutnicki: Wow, and you started that?
01:01
Angela Yemi Gibson: Yes, I started dancing with other companies in Ohio, and then I moved to Colorado, and now I’m here. So I have my own nonprofit here in South Carolina.
01:11
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, what made you want to start that?
01:14
Angela Yemi Gibson: It’s something different. It’s always changing. It keeps people engaged and it also brings a sense of community to everyone that’s involved.
01:27
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, for sure. So what does a typical work day for you look like these days? What’s expected of you on a daily basis? What are your responsibilities
01:36
Angela Yemi Gibson: For my primary job?
01:38
Emma Plutnicki: Both.
01:40
Angela Yemi Gibson: So I work every day, Monday through Friday, from 7 to 4:30. Iam responsible for making sure that claims are clean when they go out of the system. I am responsible for fixing denied claims and rebilling those claims, patient statements, speaking to patients about their balances, communicating with the clinics and the owners about any account issues thatI have. Teamwork. and in my nonprofit, I am responsible for all the choreography, all the booking, all the costumes and the musicality.
02:21
Emma Plutnicki: Wow. And how are you able to manage both at the same time? Because I’m sure both of them are pulling you in different directions.
02:27
Angela Yemi Gibson: Yes, I’m not able to manage at all. I’m not good. I’m not able to manage it all. Since I work from home, I hop from one thing to another. So it’s one moment I’m here, then the next minute I’m there. So fortunately, I have the flexibility with my job to be able to do that.
02:43
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, and are you able to manage a healthy work life balance, or is that difficult to manage?
02:50
Angela Yemi Gibson: It’s difficult to manage most of the time because most of our- I teach classes during the week and we perform and rehearse during the week or during the weekend, so it was kind of wherever. But fortunately, I have a good support system within my family, so I’m able to juggle both pretty, pretty good.
03:09
Emma Plutnicki: Amazing, and within both of your jobs, how would you define success? I feel like it’s difficult sometimes with creative careers, especially, you know, some people say it’s monetary, some people say it’s more ideological. So how do you define success in your professional career and also just in your personal life?
03:30
Angela Yemi Gibson: In my- my professional career, I would label success financially, because as much work as you do, you want to getpaid for the work that you do. But as far as my nonprofit work, I label success by the people’s response. So if no one responds when you’re doing something, that means you’re really probably not doing a good job. So if it’s- I’d rather deal with customer engagement and the responses of people in order to garner my success for my nonprofit.
04:02
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, makes sense. And did you have any fears when you started your nonprofit?
04:07
Angela Yemi Gibson: Oh absolutely. Whether I will be successful in doing it correctly, and will it be sustainable?
04:17
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah. And how were you able to kind of overcome those fears?
04:21
Angela Yemi Gibson: Just keep going. I have a team of 10 so far, and we have been going strong for these past few years, since we started the nonprofit, so it’s been pretty good. So I mean, dealing-working with people that you trust and that are dependable is key. If you don’t have those types of people involved, then you probably won’t be successful.
04:46
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. And overall, have you been able to get advice from anybody? Is there any advice that stands out as either exceptionally good or just terrible advice that you received along the way?
05:02
Angela Yemi Gibson: I have received a mixture of both. I’m online a lot, so I tend to research more than anything else. So I’ve received a mixture of good and bad advice. Some people say, you know, don’t- What do people say? Don’t confide so much in the people that you work with, because the more that they know, the more that people can possibly use against you, so to speak. But I think that if you are more transparent with people, people are more- tend to either appreciate you or to be more understanding if you’re a little bit more transparent. But I’ve also learned that a closed mouth don’t get fed. You gotta ask. Sometimes it’s okay to ask for help if you need it.
05:57
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, I love that. No, that’s great advice. And throughout your career, has there been any specific projects that you’ve worked on that kind of stand out as having a significant impact on you, or just something that you know is something that has kind of been the pinnacle of your career? Anything that stands out?
06:18
Angela Yemi Gibson: This year we did, for- this is for my nonprofit, I can’t really say for my my primary job, because we do the same thing every day.
06:26
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, okay.
06:28
Angela Yemi Gibson: But as far as my nonprofit, we successfully completed our very first residency- artist in residency. So that was a week long, and it was new, and it was completely different, and it was way out of the comfort zone, but it was successful. It was very successful.
06:48
Emma Plutnicki: Amazing. Congratulations on that. And what was that? Where did that take place?
06:53
Angela Yemi Gibson: It was in Monks Corner, South Carolina, and we taught fourth grade kids and kindergarteners for five days.
07:01
Emma Plutnicki: Amazing. And how has the community reacted to your projects and just overall, your nonprofit?
07:08
Angela Yemi Gibson: Wonderfully. They’ve been very supportive here where I am, because I live in Spartanburg, so they’ve been very supportive here. Also, I am a dance teacher at one of the ballet centers here, and they have been so supportive to where they’ve written grants to be able to get make sure that myself and my two drummers are paid for our classes. So the we’ll be able to offer the classes for free to the community. So they’re free to the community, but yet we get paid for our time.
07:41
Emma Plutnicki: Amazing. And have you seen the community, like the local professional community in South Carolina, generally helping?And is it tight knit, or is there any gaps in it?
07:51
Angela Yemi Gibson: It’s tight knit. I really think that if you don’t know the right people, you’re not in specific circles. So I think that it’s really click-ish, so you just gotta know the right people. And unfortunately, I don’t know a lot of people, so I just stick to where I’m at work, who I know.
08:09
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, how are you able to have those conversations with people? Are there any, like, networking events or anything within South Carolina that you’d recommend for people if they’re trying to get in the door with people.
08:21
Angela Yemi Gibson: I honestly have no idea. I really need to know those things myself, because I need to get out there and network a little bit more.
08:30
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, I’m sure at some some points, it’s just being in the right place at the right time.
08:34
Angela Yemi Gibson: Yeah, and it’s just finding those right places in the right time, that’s the problem.
08:38
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, exactly. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time. Just as we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to share any advice for future people looking for a career in your field?
08:52
Angela Yemi Gibson: Keep swimming. What I can say is, honestly, don’t waste your money on college, unless you’re going to do something specific to that particular major that you’re going for. If you go to trade school, go to trade school, but stick to your guns and just remain positive.
09:17
Emma Plutnicki: Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so much. I really- You’re welcome!
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David Estrada
“You want your creatives to be the enigmas. You want them to be undefinable… I try to be chaotic as possible.”
David Estrada is the Director of Content Production at Cargo, a marketing firm based in Greenville, South Carolina. With degrees in both film and advertising from the University of Texas, Estrada blends creative direction with strategic thinking. He founded his own production company in Austin before transitioning into agency work, where he now leads cross-disciplinary teams. Passionate about film, media, and collaboration, Estrada emphasizes the importance of creative chaos and community in South Carolina’s upstate marketing scene.
Interview
Transcript
Lexi Raines 00:00
David. Okay, so first, just give a little introduction of yourself, like, what’s your name? Who do you work for? And where are you currently working from?
David Estrada 00:11
Yeah. So my name is David Estrada. I am the director of content production at Cargo in Greenville, South Carolina, and it’s a marketing firm that’s been around since 2006
Lexi Raines 00:25
Okay, so have you been working there since 2006 or how long have you been- How long have you worked there?
David Estrada 00:33
I’ve been working at Cargo since April of 2016 so about 10 years after it started, I came on board. It was a company of about 15,12 to 15 people and since has, you know, I’ve been there about nine years, and it’s grown at one point. At its largest it was like 75 people, and now we’re back to under 50. I was pre-COVID. Now we’re back to just under 50.
Lexi Raines 01:06
Yeah, that’s still like a lot of growth, though and COVID impacted so many different things so for sure. So what’s one thing that you love working you- that you love about working as a creative in South Carolina?
David Estrada 01:21
Yeah, one thing that I love about working as a creative in South Carolina, wow. You know, there’s so many things that come to mind. I studied film, radio, television, film, studied advertising. Got two different degrees at the University of Texas, you know, way back when, and never really thought that things would pan out to where I was doing both of those things at one location. You know, at one job, it’s one of those things where you- you hear stories about how people study a certain thing and they get into a totally different field. And so I just feel very lucky, very, you know, blessed, I guess, to be able to be working in in the creative field like I hoped and intended to but as far as like, yeah, the creative field in South Carolina specifically, I like that there is a base, a very good baseline, of creative professionals and strategic professionals in upstate South Carolina, and I can’t really speak from any real experience in the coastal or midlands area, haven’t worked in those regions, but in the upstate, it’s- it’s nice to be surrounded by folks with so much experience to be able to learn from and I don’t know that you necessarily get that in every region, every market, yeah.
Lexi Raines 03:10
So would you say that’s like, it’s unique influence on you compared to being anywhere else?
David Estrada 03:18
Yeah, you know, this area, I guess, has the- the benefit of, at one point in history, there was a very large amount of advertising being done on a national scale from one particular agency called Henderson advertising, and there was just a lot of money coming through the area for that, and that agency, I think, collapsed back, I don’t want to misspeak on what year that happened, but it shut its doors, and from that, a lot of other like smaller agencies and professionals that learned from being at that shop kind of fragmented off and started their own shops. So now there’s just a very robust community of advertisers you know, marketing and advertising agencies.
Lexi Raines 04:22
Yeah, that’s awesome. So, could you go into like, a little bit more detail about the profession, the community there?
David Estrada 04:31
Definitely, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a small, I mean, you know, it’s a small place. So it feels like everybody has kind of worked everywhere, at all the different shops. Everybody kind of knows each other, or has at least heard of each other the like I said, there’s a mix of video production strategy, design, copywriting, developers, photographers, and, you know, it’s, it’s nice in in a smaller region or market like this, to have the opportunity to work in smaller organizations where you get to learn about all those different fields. So I think especially as a young professional, I- I came in as a project manager, and that allowed me to interact across every single creative discipline to kind of learn, like, okay, what are the challenges that copywriters face, as far as, like, you know, the direction they get from their- their creative directors versus, you know, what they hear from the clients, versus like, how they’re briefed in on projects. You know, what are the challenges that designers face that are different than, like, what an animator would- would face, and then how all those kind of cogs work together in efficiencies from like, how they transfer files back and forth, how they work from the Cloud, versus what types of things need to be local, like, you know, local hard drives and or local servers. And, you know, how do they collaborate? Not just like, like, technically, but also how they collaborate in the brain space, you know, and in hybrid environments. Or, you know, in the same room and kind of like what the hierarchy is, you know, being a being a project manager, allowed me to just integrate myself across all those things. You know, I came from a background of, like I said, having studied film, you know, in college, I came from that more writing background and editing background directing and I actually owned a production company for four years in Austin after college, in Austin, Texas, after college. And so I also got the benefit of kind of learning the hard way about the aspects of like being an entrepreneur, being a business owner, you know, paying vendor invoices, accounts receivable, accounts payable. You know, paying, filing your taxes, managing a team, both internal and external, payroll, payroll taxes, and- and so there’s, there was kind of all these things that that fuse together from my background, so that when the opportunity arrived for me to kind of take more even as a project manager, take more creative control and provide more creative direction that the agency that I was at recognized that, and then, you know, allowed me to kind of make the shift over to being a full time creative
Lexi Raines 08:13
Yeah, that’s awesome. So having that background in film and then being a project manager, that’s like combining so many different aspects, like you were explaining, how have you come to, like, define your professional or personal successes and your creative endeavors?
David Estrada 08:32
How to define, gosh, you know, I think that’s what everybody’s always trying to do is to define creatives and that’s it’s just that’s not what you want to do. You want- you want your creatives to be the enigmas. You want them to be undefinable, like if, if your creatives are operating inside of your systems, then they’re not able to be creative. You know, I think that’s why you hire that’s why you hire a quote, unquote creative is because you want them to be thinking of different not just to provide you with a set of materials that you think you want but to provide you with processes, ways of thinking, ways of getting work done that are outside of your- your the blinders that you might have on as- as a business owner or as a strategist. So as far as how I would define my creative success. I think it’s, it’s that I, I try to be chaotic as possible. Yeah.
Lexi Raines 09:54
Yeah. I think, I think those are really good points to keep in mind. Success to everybody and creativity to anybody is just so different, depending on like whoever you ask. So it really, really is person to person. So you said that you started a film production company out once you got out of college. What was your biggest fear like when you decided to pursue that.
David Estrada 10:22
Oh, money for sure, you know, like, I think everybody is seeking a sense of security, you know, a sense of that, that feeling of being safe and a life of filmmaking is the furthest thing from that is It’s the scariest thing I think you can set out to do, not only because of how vulnerable your work is can be, but also because of that financial security aspect. So, you know, I mean, I was definitely afraid of putting my work out there and- and people not understanding it, or people, you know, ragging on it or- or critiquing it, and but then there’s always people that interpret it in new ways that I didn’t even think about. But I think that was always why- That was also why I studied advertising in addition to film, was because I wanted to understand the science behind, like, how businesses use the craft that that I love, and I would, I would definitely, like, recommend to everybody, like, even if you’re really interested in in film or- or any of the arts really, you know, take the time to go to finance classes, go to accounting classes, go to management and marketing classes, because even in today’s, I mean, especially in today’s age, like you are always marketing yourself. You know, your smile is your handshake, your, sorry, your- what is the saying? It’s something like your smile is your business card, your handshake is your website kind of, you know, but like we were always, regardless of how good we are at something, just being really good is not necessarily enough to get paid. You have to be able to sell your abilities. Does that kind of answer the question?
Lexi Raines 12:40
Yes, it does, and that’s honestly, that’s something I’ve heard across the board in some of the interviews I’ve done. I think that’s something that a lot of emerging creatives do need to understand, is that there’s so much more to it. Rather than just being creative, you have to know, like you said, how to market yourself, networking all the business aspects of it. So, I feel like that’s that’s really something good to think about.
David Estrada 13:08
Yeah, I would say the other well, can you go back to what the top? Know, what the question was at the top?
Lexi Raines 13:13
The question I asked? Yeah, your biggest fear when you first decided to pursue the arts?
David Estrada 13:19
Okay? Yeah, okay, yeah. I was just, I was thinking I wanted to add something else to that, but I think we summed it up.
Lexi Raines 13:29
Yeah, okay, awesome and so you’ve come a long way since graduating, obviously. Do you have, like, a defining moment in your creative journey, like was, did you have a particular project that you think made a significant impact on you?
David Estrada 13:48
There is one defining moment that does come to mind. It’s not actually a creative project, which I mean, I could, I could give a creative project as well as it was defining. But I think probably something like one of the things that made the biggest difference in my career was actually, I took two years off of college after freshman year. f\Freshman year, I went in wholeheartedly, like, I’m going to study film and and I was my, my only major. And then I took two years off, I came back, and I think that that that fear, like you talked about, that fear of security, had started to creep in. And so I thought, “you know what? It’s- films just not a- a viable career choice”. It’s an, you know, as an art like I’m always gonna be struggling. And so I went to my career advisor at- at UT and told him, “hey, you know, I want to, I want to change my, my major over to advertising”. And he said, “okay, cool. You know, schedule you to class- Classes, we’ll get you set and, you know, apply to the advertising school. We’ll see if you get in”. I should find out in a couple of weeks. This is like at the start of the semester, and I’m walking out, and I hit the button to go down the elevator, and this woman comes running, walking quickly towards me, and she’s like, “Hey, I’m so sorry,- I I am the Career Advisor with the office next door to yours, and I’m just, I couldn’t I couldn’t help the doors were open. I couldn’t help I was eavesdropping”. I was like, “oh, okay, nope, whatever. I don’t care”. And she’s like, “well, I just, I felt like, you know, you sounded like, you really love making films, making movies, and, you know, you can, like, double major or whatever, right?” And I was like, “no, like, I didn’t even realize that was a concept”. She’s like, “well, you know, with maybe, like, an extra semester looking at the” because, I guess while we had been meeting, she was like, “looking at the comparisons and like, how they how the courses would- would interactions like, I think with like, one extra semester, you could get a degree in both”. And I was like, “No way. Okay”. So then I walked right back into her office and sat down, and she got me totally rearranged and set up. I ended up getting an email from the moody College of Communication at UT that I wasn’t accepted into the advertising program, and then like, the next day, or it might even been, like, two hours later, they’re like, “oh, sorry, we made a clerical error. You’re in”. I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is like, such a roller coaster”, yeah. So that was definitely a defining moment, because now I get to have a full time job out of this. I’ve worked professionally, full time in publishing, on the publishing side, making videos and original content. And I’ve worked, you know, obviously I had my business doing commercial work and short film, and then I’ve had an agency job for nine years, and every time, it’s always been with an angle of marketing, plus video or video production or photography production. So definitely extremely grateful for that.
Lexi Raines 17:19
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds awesome. Like I- I feel like you don’t really ever wish someone was eavesdropping on you, but in that moment, I feel like that made a big difference for sure. And I feel like- I feel like everybody really, especially in college, needs somebody that’s going to guide them towards their passions, but also something that is, I don’t want to say, more realistic, but will help stabilize you. So I feel like that’s really awesome.
David Estrada 17:52
It’s good to have something to be to be grounded to. And, you know, I don’t want this in any way, shape or form, to deter somebody from fully pursuing the arts, because, you know, this is just my path, and it’s probably my path, because maybe I never fully took the leap, you know, like there, I think that there. I mean, I have colleagues from- from college who have struggled, but then I also have colleagues who did take that leap. And now are, you know, VPs at, I don’t know, like one of my buddies is VP at Black Bear pictures, you know, which has produced award winning films, and we graduated the same year, you know. So it’s, I think it’s that move of like being in the place where the work is going on, like a New York or in LA, can be very difficult financially and but if you love it enough and you’re willing to put up with the difficulty and be patient. I mean, I think that that is still the move. I don’t know how much longer you know that will be the move. Maybe things are fractaling out, you know, to different regions a little bit more. But, yeah.
Lexi Raines 19:17
Yeah, I feel like, definitely- I feel like New York and LA used to be, like a big hub for all of that, but I feel, especially with the internet and social media and everything, I feel like it’s definitely way more possible to be creative outside of those areas now, like easier than it was then. So this kind of goes along the lines of what you were talking about. But what’s the best and worst advice that you’ve ever received?
David Estrada 19:50
Okay, start with sort of the worst advice, which was. Is,” don’t be so idealistic”, which, I mean, I’ll explain because, you know, I think that there’s, there’s definitely some, I mean, there’s some drawbacks to being an idealist, but that, if you don’t have something that keeps you going, you don’t have some kind of hope, you don’t have some kind of, like, vision for what the best possible outcome could be, then what are you doing? You know what I mean, like, in order to be a visionary, like, well, in order to be a person who can affect positive change in your own life or in the life of your coworkers or your family, like, my opinion, you have got to be an idealist with a healthy dose of pragmatism. You have to know what it’s going to take. You can’t be, you know, pure idealist. You have to understand what the barriers are going to be. But there’s always going to be that final gap between what seems possible and what is impossible, that like, there’s only like, there’s only so much like delusion that you can have about a goal, right? Because if you have too many delusions, then people are going to write you off. I think you get one delusion per goal, and that delusion is usually the idea that you can do it, that you can be the one to do it, unless you’re like, you know Ryan Reynolds, or you know Trump, or whoever, like people who don’t have to the delusion doesn’t have to be them, because people already know that they can do it, right. So then they can have delusions about other, like, other things in the project, and that gap can be made up. But yeah, I would say the worst advice would be like, don’t be so idealistic. Gotta have some- gotta be an idealist to become a visionary. The best advice I’ve ever received was listen. Listen a lot more than you speak. Because, in my opinion, telling stories is not about talking in order to find the best story and ultimately tell the best story, you have to listen to the world around you, the people around you. That’s where you’re going to find the inspiration. And if you’re too busy worrying about, like, what am I going to say, what am I going to write, you’re always going to be in your own head. You know, draw from the experiences of other people. And I do think it’s an issue that maybe, maybe it’s rooted in academia. In early K through 12, academia, of like, okay, we got a speech class, we got an oration class. We don’t have, like, we don’t teach listening skills, and there’s the public speaking aspect, but I think listen more than you than you speak. In order to tell a great story, you got to listen first.
Lexi Raines 23:37
Yeah, I think that. I think that’s a great thing to live by. That’s really something that we focus on here at the Athenaeum Press- is just lifting up people’s voices from all over South Carolina, because at the end of the day, their stories matter, and they deserve to be heard, and who knows they can, if they can help anybody. It was something that was worth putting out there. Yeah, so kind of shifting gears. Do you have, like, a typical work day? Like, what does your process look like, and what’s expected of you on a daily basis?
David Estrada 24:08
For sure. Yeah. So I think that those things change a lot, because as much when you’ve been somewhere for a very long time, like 10 years, the business around you changes, and what that business needs from you can- can change pretty drastically. So like I said, I started off as a project manager, and then I became a producer, and then became a, I guess, like, for lack of a better term, like an executive producer, or like a, like a, like a production lead. So I had as a manager. I had a full team of shooters, filmmakers, editors, animators, and so, you know, my role shifted more towards being a sort of like a creative director over video and helping to make sure that all of those folks had the resources that they need and had the information that they needed in order to do their jobs, but so now my day to day is much more in the trenches of executing the work rather than the managerial side. So my day to day is oftentimes show up to a set and take a bunch of photos, commercial photography, and then spend some time in post-production, retouching those, color grading those. Or, you know, my- my day might be, because now I have a producer who does, like most of the communication stuff for me, and, you know, she might come to me and say,” Hey, we have a new bid. Can you help me kind of scope out what the lift will be, what the level of effort will be?” And so I could, I could provide some input on the budget side, or, you know, it might be, hey, we, we’ve got this new video project that we need you to direct. And so I might then be on set, you know, doing the actual commercial direction of the spot. You know, help with crewing up projects. So, you know, maybe, maybe I need to reach out and contact some directors of photography, you know, video shooters that I would want to bring on board a project. You know, other producers that could help gaffers or hair and makeup artists and just using my network to kind of crew up shoots, or honestly, a large part of my day, each day could be spent editing video, doing sound mix and color grade and searching for music tracks.
Lexi Raines 27:30
So that sounds like definitely a lot to kind of schedule and work around. How have you created a work life balance, where you think you’re able to maintain both your professional and your personal creativity.
David Estrada 27:48
I think in advertising business, there is because what you’re selling is the brain power of your people. You know, there, there’s not a physical production line with a product that is the output, where you can physically measure the quality versus the competitions output in a quantifiable way. I think, you know, media and data try to do that. But as a- as a creative shop like us that doesn’t have an internal we have media partners that we work with, but not an internal media arm. You know, it’s very difficult to come up with, like, an idea of how we measure up against the competition in a non-qualitative way. So, because of that, it is an extremely competitive industry, and everyone is always vying for that next AOR contract. And oftentimes you’re in competition against a bunch of other local shops, or sometimes national shops. And there tends to be a because of that sort of cutthroat mentality, there tends to be a do whatever it takes mentality when it comes to work life balance. So, you know, I think when you love it, it, it doesn’t affect you in a negative way, as far as, like, your- your mental health, or whatever. But, and I do love it, and so, you know, there’s, there’s definitely, like, I would say less of a work life balance in advertising than maybe other, even creative other creative industries. But yeah, as far as like me personally, what I do, I try to set boundaries more for myself than anyone I- or with myself, of like, hey, you know, like, no matter what it is you’re working on, trying to go home at seven at the latest, and, you know, pick back up where you left off. But if you have a deadline, you know, it can be tough to to sign off. And so then it becomes a question of just managing your time effectively saying no when you know, even if you want to help out on a project, knowing when your bandwidth is too strapped at smaller you know, especially specifically at cargo, you know, when it, when it was a smaller company, there weren’t really, like resource managers. So it wasn’t like, wasn’t like there was anybody managing my bandwidth. So, you know, I just, whatever came through the door, came to my plate and had to get done. Yeah, you know, Now, thankfully, we’ve, we’ve matured, and we have resource managers that are able to look at what’s on the plate of a specific creative and say, You know what, I’m not even going to bring this project to their attention. I’ve got to, I’ve got to go to an outside resource because I know that their- their plate’s already full. So yeah, I think as a as a company matures. Hopefully you’re not having to, as a creative really, like worry too much about your work life balance. Hopefully there’s, there’s a resource manager that’s that’s helping with that.
Lexi Raines 31:31
Yeah. Okay, so my final question, well, second to final question, do you have any questions that you wish you were asked during this interview.
David Estrada 31:43
Oh, that’s a great question. Let’s see. Yeah. I mean, just what’s the coolest project I’ve ever worked on? You know?
Lexi Raines 31:50
So tell me what’s the coolest project you’ve worked on?
David Estrada 31:55
Well, I guess in most in most recent years, the my favorite one is a music video that I shot with Fred Armisen from Portlandia. So, you know, working with- with celebrities is always fun and challenging. But in this specific case, you know, it was an opportunity to work with somebody who really respect and find to be, you know, extremely funny, and also to implement some new technology that I hadn’t worked with before, in the case of virtual production, so working on a volume soundstage and building environments in Unreal Engine in order to deploy those onto, you know, onto the LED screen, and just seeing how we can do in camera visual effects with, you know, the way that those volume stages can detect camera movements and and props and scale or move The background in, in parallax in a way that that computes and makes sense with the real world.
Lexi Raines 33:06
Yeah, that sounds awesome. That sounds so cool. I feel- I that was sounds like such a like an amazing experience.
David Estrada:
Yeah, it was great.
Lexi Raines
So my last question for you today is, do you have a creative based in South Carolina that you’d like to nominate to be interviewed?
Speaker 1 33:22
Oh, yeah, Rocky French.
Lexi Raines 33:26
Rocky French. Okay, awesome. And what? What the What do they do?
David Estrada 33:32
He’s a creative director.
Lexi Raines 33:35
Oh Awesome. Okay, so thank you so much for your time. Today. Sounds good, awesome. Have a good rest of your week.
David Estrada
You too. Thank you. Bye.
-
Sam Sokolow
“Make something. Follow your gut. And remember, everything, success or failure, is a learning experience.”
Sam Sokolow is a two-time Emmy-nominated film and television producer who recently relocated to Greenville, South Carolina after 23 years in Los Angeles and a childhood in New York City. Now focused on building a slate of independent films from the South, Sokolow is also helping develop the Clemson Film School and working on global workforce training for emerging film markets. His mission is to empower storytellers and creatives through mentorship, opportunity, and industry experience.
Interview
Transcript
Lexi Raines 00:00
Sam, okay, so first, I just want you to give like a little introduction of yourself. What do you do for work, and where are you currently working from?
Sam Sokolow 00:09
Sure. My name is Sam Sokolow. I am a producer of Film and Television. I’m a two time Emmy nominated producer who, after 23 years in Los Angeles and growing up in New York City, has now moved to Greenville, South Carolina, where I am building a slate of independent films. I am working to help build the Clemson film school, and I’m still running my production company from here, as well as working on a global workforce development program that I helped build to help train crew to work in emerging markets, which are skills I certainly want to bring to South Carolina.
Lexi Raines 00:46
Yeah that- and that’s awesome. So you said you’ve lived in LA. So what does working in- what does working in Greenville like, or in South Carolina in general, what’s one thing that you have loved about working here?
Sam Sokolow 01:01
There are many things I love about working in Greenville. One, most of the time I feel like I’m in the middle of a Hallmark movie. Absolutely beautiful, and it is, and I and I say quaint in the best way, coming out of big cities like New York and Los Angeles. This is a perfect place for me right now. My wife is from the upstate of South Carolina. She’s from Gaffney, South Carolina, and we moved here for the best reasons in the world, which was love. To be near her family, and when you do those things, I think miracles happen around you, and so all of the things that I’m working on right now to help bring production to South Carolina and develop production in South Carolina are really motivated by love and by being in the right place that I’m supposed to be in life right now, but bringing my unique skill set from a from a career, you know, in Hollywood, in New York, making movies and TV shows.
Lexi Raines 01:54
Yeah that’s- that’s awesome. So would you say that that’s one aspect that South Carolina like brings to your work, or what would you say its unique influences on you compared to like anywhere else?
Sam Sokolow 02:07
Well, at the end of the day, we’re storytellers. How we execute those stories is modified project to project. I’ve told stories for very, very little money, and I’ve told stories for astronomical sums of money in studio deals with companies like Disney, but at the end of the day, it’s about great storytelling and one thing that I have found in my, you know, 25 plus years of coming to the upstate of South Carolina is that this place is, you know, teaming with great storytellers and whether those storytellers tell their stories in journalistic fashions, whether they write books, poems, essays, short stories, make YouTube videos, as my wife does on her YouTube channel, the Southern Women channel. It’s about authentic storytelling that can also connect with universal themes, so that people locally can appreciate them, and people you know globally can appreciate them. Because we live in a remarkable time right now where there’s only one territory left and it’s the whole world at once. Yeah. So the opportunity to be a part of an emerging market like South Carolina, and hope to help facilitate the remarkable storytellers here tell their stories on screen, is extremely exciting and gets me up every morning with a tremendous amount of ambition and enthusiasm and there are a lot of talented people in the state of South Carolina, I think it’s a hidden gem. So, you know, again, if I can help facilitate some of those storytellers and- and some of those stories then, then it’ll be a true blessing.
Lexi Raines 03:54
Yeah that’s- that’s an amazing to hear, and that’s such- you’re bringing such wonderful opportunities to South Carolina. So, I’ve actually heard that there’s like, a really, like, big and close knitted filmmaking hub in Greenville that I didn’t know about before. How would you describe that local community?
Sam Sokolow 04:15
It’s a, it’s a, I would describe the Greenville production community, to paraphrase Shakespeare, you know, “she may be small, but she is mighty”. There are very talented people here, cinematographers, grips, you know, directors, assistant directors, certainly writers and I think that tapping into that talent is something that I’m in a constant state of trying to do because, you know, being a producer and- and having had the fortune of producing some pretty big things in my career, it’s a very unique skill set, and I think that producers, while not everyone understands what they do. Are, are organizing? Can we? Can we? Can be a part of organizing the- the talent that’s already there. So, you know, I’m not here to put my own thoughts or process into play or attempt to do that. I’m here to try to learn and discover and harness the energy that’s here, and again, see if my experience as a producer can- can help some great stories be made here, and hopefully made by local artists, filmmakers, writers, directors, and exported to the world. So, the South Carolina stories and attitude and wonder can be felt by everyone the way I feel it, you know, by getting to live here now.
Lexi Raines 05:43
Yeah, that is- that’s awesome. That’s so amazing. So how would you define your professional or personal successes and like your creative endeavors, since you have shifted to kind of helping people along in their paths?
Sam Sokolow 06:02
You know, when you have a career in the arts, I think that you’re always looking ahead to the next project, as we say, swimming to the next buoy in the ocean. And, you know, I’ve been very fortunate to work on amazing projects my whole career, and at different levels. So, when I was in New York, it was more independent films and commercials. When I moved to Los Angeles, I got involved in larger television series, and eventually global, you know, shows that really had a massive impact. And now that I’m in South Carolina again, I’m not bringing my own preconceived ideas of what it should be. I’m trying to harness the energy here and see if I can be a supportive force. Again, there are a lot of different ways to think of a producer, and I certainly have many definitions and many facets that I go through when doing a project, from development through production, through delivery, then distribution and marketing. I mean, you’re sort of there for the whole life cycle of a project. But ultimately, I distill the job of being a producer down to putting creative people in a position to do their best work. Yeah, and I can come here and put creative people in a position to do their best work, then I’m doing my job that I’ve been fortunate to learn over many, many years of trial and effort, and, you know, failure and success. And, you know, learn by doing this. This, this job, I think, for everyone that works in filmed entertainment, to a large degree, is you learn by doing. You can get trained, certainly, and you can get the education, but once you step on set, that’s where you take your training and you’re in your education, put it to work and begin to learn by doing and by- by the real world experiences that you have and- and so I’m just hoping to bring that experience and good energy and support to the to the creatives here that I am fortunate to meet and hopefully work with.
Lexi Raines 08:09
Yeah, it’s- it’s amazing that you can give that to people, because I know there are so many people that in like smaller states that don’t have that type of guidance to look to. When you first started your journey in film, what was, what was your biggest fear to first starting out with that?
Sam Sokolow 08:31
I’ve wanted to do this as long as I can remember. I was what’s called the latch key kid growing up in New York. My parents both worked. My brother and sister were older than me, so I came home most days from school, and sort of was on my own, and movies were my imaginary friend. Movies were my escape. Movies were my babysitter, and so I’ve loved movies and dust as well television and storytelling on screen my entire life. So, I try to keep things very positive, but honest to goodness. My biggest fear was not getting to do it. My biggest fear was failing in my attempts to actually work in the industry and be a part of projects. That was what drove me to never quitting, to being, you know, really stick to it, to having something that I think everyone needs in this industry, which is perseverance. And I have a deep well of perseverance, because not doing this was the worst thing I can imagine. You know, you know, could I have been a lawyer, a doctor, or the politician or whatever, perhaps. But I think that, you know, going back to the original, original, original, sort of caveman days, you know, there are people who go out or cave people who go out and kill dinosaurs, and they’re those who guard the cave. And then there are people in the back drawing on the wall and creating a sense of entertainment. Storytelling, continuity and storytelling, to me, is the bedrock of society and the bedrock of continual society. And so not being a storyteller was the scariest thing. And so again, I’m very blessed to have had a supportive family, to have had a supportive people around me, but, but really, my only fear was not doing it.
Lexi Raines 10:24
Yes, and obviously, you’ve become so successful being nominated for the Emmys, that’s like mind blowing. That’s absolutely awesome. Was- was this like a defining moment in your creative journey, or do you have one, like, was there a particular project you worked on that had a significant impact on you.
Sam Sokolow 10:45
I think there are many projects that have impacts on you as you go through time. Yes, and with each achievement, you have earned the right and what I would say, the internal credibility to reach for the next rung on the ladder. You know, I’ve done projects; when I- I made an independent feature when I was in my 20s in New York, that was like the- the very definition of the labor of love, the fall on the sword, the kind of, you know, throw all caution to the wind. And when we got that film made, I thought that was the most definitional moment of my career. Yeah, when the film didn’t get the distribution deal that we had hoped, and we sort of somehow ended up with it, literally like sitting in boxes in an apartment, I thought that was the other kind of definitional moment of my career. Then we created a paradigm and became the first filmmakers to ever self-distribute a movie using the internet? Yeah, that’s got a tremendous amount of national and in some cases, international attention. And I thought that was a defining moment, you know, so that that the goal is to keep working, and the goal is to keep trying, and the goal is to keep stretching yourself, to try to, you know, do bigger projects or more significant projects as you see them. And that definition is different for everyone. But certainly, when I got nominated for the first Emmy, it was, without question, a feeling to kind of use the allegory of the hero’s journey of slaying a dragon. I went out to Hollywood, I- I broke into an industry I’d never been in before. I only knew at the time my brother and my best friend, even- even Julia, my wife, who was my fiance at the time, was still in New York. It was a very kind of caution, again, caution to the wind. I hope it works out experience and to have built a career there and built the relationships and built the company that I built and achieved those things, I would say that getting nominated for the Emmy was certainly a significant moment that allows me to kind of step back and be like, wow, look, look what, look what happened. It was pretty remarkable. But even that is a collaborative experience, you know, I didn’t get nominated for an Emmy. I mean, technically, I did, but we got nominated for an Emmy, the creative team on that show, and that year, you know, Jeffrey rush got nominated for Best Actor, and there were, you know, there were 10 nominations from the technical side. So it was, it was being able to work with people of that caliber that I think, for me, was more exciting and more meaningful than the accolade. But the accolade certainly is, is pretty astounding. And, you know, frankly, pretty cool.
Lexi Raines 13:41
Yeah for sure. So you seem like you obviously, you have so much experience in this. I’m sure people have tried to put in their two cents into your career. What is the best and worst advice you’ve received?
Sam Sokolow 13:59
The best advice that I received was that you don’t aim for money in the creative arts. You aim for relative moments and to be a part of moments that that capture people’s imaginations or get a certain amount of attention and become a certain level of success that, again, allow you to go up to the next rung in the ladder. Because, you know, as a- as a producer, I want to work with the best talent in the world. You know, that’s the goal, world class talent. And so if I was aiming just for money, I may not have achieved or taken some of the risks that I took that allowed me to achieve things that allowed me to go up that ladder. So, working for moments, being a part of something relative, always thinking, how can we do something that cuts through? How can we do something that really connects with an audience that taught me to focus? On the work and the creative idea and process and quality of something, and give the things you’re a part of an opportunity to become relevant, and then the opportunities and things like money follow. So that was the best advice I would say to anybody that wants to be a filmmaker or be in this industry, make things,? you know. Don’t just wait to get chosen. Don’t just wait to get picked, take agency of your career, of your experience, and make a short film, write a script, do something that gets noticed, because we’re in the visual arts, and if you have visibility and getting to do the art, kind of follows. So that was the best advice I was given. The worst advice that I was given, honestly, it, I don’t think I can nail one particular thing down. It’s sort of in, you know, I would say that there were moments where my gut told me to do something, and I allowed a representative, an agent, a manager, a lawyer, to tell me that’s probably not going to work. Yeah, and when I, when I took the advice of others that something wouldn’t work and didn’t execute something that my gut was telling me to do more than not, I would see some version of it become a success. You know, not in every case. This is not a business, a patent, 1000 for sure, but I would see that and say I should have just followed my gut. So it was less about, I think, sweeping advice that was like bad advice, yeah, which is, I think it was in the moment, listening to whoever was in my ear at any given moment that talked me out of following my heart and my gut, and so I learned over time, to follow my heart and my gut, and as one of my other producing mentors said to me, do the things that you believe in, and I promise that you know, 10 years from now, there’ll be plenty of people lined up to tell you if you were right or wrong.
Lexi Raines 16:57
Yeah, I think those are good words to live by, because you truly never know until you’ve gone out and you’ve tried it, so-
Sam Sokolow 17:06
Exactly, I don’t look at anything like a failure. Everything is a learning experience. Everything is a learning experience. So, you know, I try not to think about things in the terms of successes and failures. I try to think in the terms of, what did I learn, what did we experience? And, you know, again, you have a lot more failure, quote, unquote, than you do success in the industry. I’ve put 20 TV shows on the air. I’ve been a part of making half a dozen films. You know, these are all incredible experiences and achievements, of course but to get there, I’ve probably tried 300 things, so there’s 275 things that never quite made it, yeah, but, but I’ve learned from every single thing that that we tried.
Lexi Raines 17:59
Yeah, I think that’s extremely valuable. So, can you walk me through a typical work day for you, like, what does your process look like, and what do you, what’s kind of expected from you on a daily basis?
Sam Sokolow 18:15
It’s a great question. On a daily basis, I- I wear several hats. And- excuse me-
Lexi Raines
You’re good.
Sam Sokolow
On a daily basis, I wear several hats. And the number one thing that I’ve learned is to be present, so that whatever I’m doing, I’m completely present for and right now I am only here talking to you. This is, this is what I’m doing. When we’re done, I will move on to something else and be present for that. So any given day, I even just- taking today as an example: I woke up early. I had a 90 minute meeting with a writer in the UK, in England, with a producing partner in Iceland on a global television series that we’re developing. We hope it becomes a global series, but it has the potential to be. I did some of that while driving to Clemson. I then taught film production courses at Clemson, which I’m extremely passionate about, to help build the Clemson film program. Help- help South Carolina again, go up and weight class itself, which isn’t going to happen because I wanted to it’s going to happen because great young talent is emerging here. And put in that effort and energy, and I love teaching. Then on my way back to Greenville, I had a few other business calls. And then once I got to Greenville, I put all my energy into this, you know, global workforce training program that I do with a company called Stage 32 and in that, I’ve been going back and forth, literally, with film commissions and some studios in Austria, in Uganda. Bucha. I had an exchange with the film commissioner in Croatia. So, you know, I think it’s seeing the- the world as open right now, but again, trying very hard to focus locally on developing things. But in any given day, I will develop. I will work on the projects that I’m producing. I will work on educating people here in the state of South Carolina, I will work on building the Clemson film school, and I’ll work on this, you know, incredible global training project to help people all over the world get the skills they need to work in the industry as- as it’s emerging all over the place. Yeah, it sounds like, but they’re, they’re busy days, but they’re exciting days. And what I will say on a very personal note is that working from Greenville is an absolute joy, and in New York and Los Angeles, there’s more external pressure and external noise, and I find that I’m more effective here in focusing on each thing that I’m trying to do. Zoom has changed the world. So nobody cares where I am as much as what I can bring to any given opportunity, or- or- or aproject or initiative. So, you know, it’s wonderful to be in Greenville and kind of have this calm around me, but, but be doing, you know, probably the most exciting work I’ve, I’ve ever done, including, you know, two seasons of genius that have, that have happened since I’ve been here.
Lexi Raines 21:33
Yeah, and that’s that’s so good to hear. So it sounds like you obviously have so much going on at all times. How do you create, like, a healthy work life balance where you’re able to maintain kind of like your professional life and also just your personal life?
Sam Sokolow 21:53
You know, maintaining a healthy work life balance is not the easiest thing in the world, and sometimes you certainly put more emphasis on work at times, and then you have to make a point of, you know, either having set date nights with, you know, my wife, or making sure that we get in the car and go spend a day with her family, or I hop on a plane and go up and spend a weekend in New York with my mom and my brother and taking vacations when we can. And when those things happen, get out of the house and do things, hiking a little bit, getting into nature here has been really wonderful. I try to have a little bit of balance in every day, you know. And- and by having a little bit of balance in every day, then, then- then you end up in balance in life. But I, you know, I meditate, I- I have my own, you know, spiritual, you know, experience that I am deeply into and- but I love the work and so from the outside looking in. You know, others might think that I maybe work too much, but to me, this is such a reward to get to do this work. I-I’m not a hobbyist. I don’t, I don’t really- I’m not going to bake sourdough bread or make a ship in a bottle. I’d rather spend that time helping somebody make a short film or reading a script or- or again, helping Clemson with new opportunity, helping the Film Commission in South Carolina try to achieve whatever goals they have, helping, you know, people around the world get the skills they need to work in this industry. So it’s not always easy. You do have to really be disciplined to take time off and to and to make sure that you do smell the roses and- and cultivate a really healthy personal life. And I’m lucky. I’ve got some really wonderful friends. I’ve got a great family and- and I have a wife who I love so dearly that I’m in South Carolina now.
Lexi Raines 23:56
Yeah. So what are some, like, habits that you have developed throughout your career that you think would be beneficial for others wanting to join your field?
Sam Sokolow 24:10
It depends on what they want to do, but immersing yourself in what you want to do while sounding so obvious, I think that there’s a there’s a sense that the arts and filmed entertainment is some type of magic and- and is some artistic experience, which it is, but on some level, that is like, can feel a little unattainable. But when I graduated from film school myself, I did not get a bachelor of the arts. I got a Bachelor of Science, and that always reminds me that this is a science, this is a craft, and you have to apply yourself to the craft. So if you want to be a producer, you know, go online, Google “What does a producer do?” Google things about the things that- that- that make a producer. I know how to manage a budget. I know how to do cost reporting. I know how to manage a crew of people on the creative side and the business side. If you want to be a cinematographer. Study cinematography, shoot things, get a camera, take the camera apart, put the camera back together. You know, don’t, don’t, kind of sit around dreaming about things. Be active. Yes, meet, meet your dreams halfway. Don’t, don’t expect somebody to just knock on the door and hand them to you. Study work. If you want to be a screenwriter, awesome. Read screenplays. You can download screenplays right now off the internet for almost any movie, -there’s- there- you can go on sites and download all the Oscar nominated movies right now, the scripts, read the scripts, then watch the movie, see what choices were made by the by the director and by the creative team and the production designer and the costume designer and the hair designer to all be a part of telling that story. So, I really think it’s about immersing yourself in the things that you want to do and just trying to learn as much as you can about them. And those are things that every individual can control. If you want to be an actor, study acting, get into acting class, put in the time, get- get better at your craft, get, you know, build your reservoir of- of- of tools so that you can be a strong actor. And then, by being an acting class, you may meet other actors that invite you to be in a film, be in a short, be in a play. You know, I think, I think you have to get into the community that you want to be in, and you have to kind of commit yourself to learning and- and- and experiencing the things that you want to do and learn from them. So, yeah, I’m just a real believer in self-studying and self-motivation, and- and, and, and we live in a moment now with the internet where everything’s at your fingertips, so you can learn about anything, and you can learn about and then apply those things yourself. So, you know, I think that the best advice I can give people is think about the things that you want to do, and you don’t have to do one thing. I have a friend in Los Angeles who, you know, we refer to as the Swiss Army knife. He’s a professional grade editor. He’s a professional grade line producer, which is someone who makes budgets and handles the money. He’s an accomplished producer. He’s in the Writers Guild of America. He’s a writer, and he’s given himself the opportunity to always work by mastering multiple crafts. And so I think ultimately, we’re crafts people, and when you’re a crafts person, you know, study the craft, do the craft, and everything else will happen.
Lexi Raines 27:46
I completely agree. I feel like so many people, they think that the most successful people are only these creative geniuses that have had this, this burst of creativity. But there’s so much more to that, to it than that. There’s, like, every aspect of it outside of that, marketing yourself, networking, learning how to budget, like you were saying, basically. So I think people, I think people will find a lot of good advice from that.
Sam Sokolow 28:17
Well, yeah. I mean, look, ultimately, and I don’t want to sound like brash or anything, but the difference between amateurs and professionals in the arts is really the difference between people who start stuff and people who finish stuff. And if you can become a finisher, get your film done, get your script done, you know, put it out there in the world, even if you just put it on YouTube and share it with people to see and get see, get feedback, finish things. You know, being a professional producer for all the years I was in Hollywood, especially working in television, you know, these weren’t independent projects that I could get back to later. I mean, this was like, deliver on time and on budget and- and, and you have to deliver a finished thing. And so all of the things I’ve been talking about always come back down to me as- as learning how to finish finishing the great divider of people that that want to do things and people that are doing it. And so, it’s, it’s not to me again, it’s not very complicated. It’s just finish the script you’re writing. Don’t get to page 40 and write another one. Don’t get to page 40 and start rewriting it from page one again. Get to the end, finish of something, and then go back and look at the edit and keep working on it. But finishing is the ultimate goal, I think, for anybody that wants to work professionally in this world. And if you finish something, the great news is you can then start the next thing and apply everything you learn from the thing that you finished. But if you don’t finish things, you can easily get bogged down and lose a lot of time and momentum and then feel like I can never get anything done. And you know, there’s no perfection. There’s no perfection. I mean, Francis Ford Coppola just recut God Father Three again. You watch the movie, Empire Strikes Back and there are continuity issues. There’s no such thing as perfection, but finishing and exposing your work to an audience is, is, is the is, to me, the coolest thing in the world. And you know, not everybody’s going to like everything you do. Some people might really not like something that you do. That’s okay, but finishing is really the key. So I- I hope that people in South Carolina continue to create, continue to start, and really continue to finish, and get the work out there.
Lexi Raines 30:36
Yeah. So do you have any questions that you wish you were asked today?
Sam Sokolow 30:47
Hmm, it’s a good question. I don’t believe I do. I mean, if you feel that I’ve answered the questions that that this, this opportunity to talk to you, you know was about then, then I feel pretty good about it. You know? Again, there I’m I can talk about this all day long. I love teaching and I love the I love talking about the process, but at the end of the day, it’s the doing. And so instead of answering more questions, you know, hopefully we’ll do a lot of things that people will hear about and see and enjoy and- and you know, continue to look at South Carolina as this great place that great stories come from.
Lexi Raines 31:32
Thank you so much. I think that people are definitely going to get so much from this interview. I think you had so much amazing advice, so much so many good stories that people can take and just digest on their own. So my last question for you is, do you have a creative in South Carolina that you’d like to nominate to be interviewed?
Sam Sokolow 31:58
Ah, can I get back to you on that?
Lexi Raines
Yes, you can, yes
Sam Sokolow
Because I don’t. I mean, I will, but I don’t, I don’t for something like this. I don’t like to nominate people that I have not asked if they want to do it.
Lexi Raines
Yeah, you’re completely good. Yeah.
Sam Sokolow
I want to make sure that who I nominate says yes and- and isn’t too busy or into some other things, or maybe this isn’t their jam. So give me, you know, pop me a note, maybe again on Monday or Tuesday. I’ll talk to a few folks and there, I mean again, I’ve met some extraordinary creative energies down here. I have two at the very top of my head, one in the film industry and one of the music industry but let me, let me put a feeler out to them and see if they’re if they’re game.
Lexi Raines 32:44
Okay. Thank you so much again. This interview has been so amazing, like, even just on a personal level, like, your advice means a lot. So yeah, I hope you have an amazing rest of your day.
Sam Sokolow 32:59
You too, appreciate you making the time work. And, you know, reach out if there’s anything else I can do. And awesome. Alright, well, I’ll let you know about nominating somebody. And if you wouldn’t mind, whenever my interview does drop, if you can just pop me a note and a link, I’ll share it with a bunch of people.
Lexi Raines 33:14
Yeah I definitely, will definitely do that. Love it.
Sam Sokolow 33:17
Alright Lexi, awesome yourself. And great Friday night and we’ll be talking. We’re in touch. Thank you.
Lexi Raines 33:22
Thank you too.
Sam Sokolow
All right. Take care. Bye.
