Career Area: Arts Education

  • Steph Sneed

    Steph Sneed

    Interview

    Transcript

    Sarah Jane Thomas  00:01

    Hello, my name is Sarah Jane Thomas, and today we are talking with Steph Sneed, a professional creative working from and within South Carolina. As we get started, can you tell us your current career and where you’re from?

    Steph Sneed  00:12

    Sure. Originally, I am from West Virginia, but I have moved around a lot in my life, and I ended up in South Carolina, about eight years ago, and my job is called Imagine Academy. It’s an after-school program for kids age six to 12, and I also do like a lot of workshops, and I work with different organizations within our community.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  00:40

    Perfect. Before we go into detail of your profession, we have a brief section of the interview called One Career 60 Seconds, where you describe your job in 60 seconds or less, similar to an elevator pitch. We’re ready whenever you are.

    Steph Sneed  00:55

    Okay, so my job is basically creating programming for kids, but I also I’m like a one-woman show here. I don’t have any employees or anything. I keep my program very small. I operate out of my house, so I have six students a day. And let’s see what else. I also have a big heart for just kids and youth who don’t get the opportunity to create on a regular basis, and so I actually get to partner with a foster. It’s like a an organization who work with teens in foster care. So I work a lot with that organization, creating classes and opportunities for them to express themselves. And I also work a lot with an occupational therapist nonprofit in our area, who allows me to work with kids on the spectrum and have other disabilities.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  01:48

    That was perfect. What would you consider your job title?

    Steph Sneed  01:53

    I am the director, but I’m also like the teacher. But I would say I’m like the creative director. A lot of the program, a lot of the projects that we do, I like push the kids to create like individual, like themes, and so I’m often like directing them individually based off their ideas.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  02:20

    So, as a director, is there anything in South Carolina in particular that you bring to your work?

    Steph Sneed  02:28

    Like that maybe sets me apart. So, I think the thing that sets my work apart is that I work kind of so with such a small group. I have done workshops with like the school with different school districts, and I’ve noticed in like based off of feedback from the other teachers, the projects that I have in mind are unique because in school settings they would not have the capacity to attempt them, and so because it requires so much like personalized help and support. So I think that’s kind of that and the that I do two part classes. I do like a guided part where we work on like something technical, and then yeah, we do the project where they’re like really being pushed to express themselves personally, based off their interest in, and it’s it’s amazing because it really asks a lot of them to figure out like what do they like, what are they interested in, what inspires them, and that’s a pretty big question for a child.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  03:40

    Do you think it gives you a sense of familiarity being in the area?

    Steph Sneed  03:45

    I don’t know. I don’t know what you mean.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  03:47

    Like with the kids, do you think? Like, do you work with the same kids consistently? Do you work with the same school consistently? Does it kind of give you the ability to get familiar with everything?

    Steph Sneed  04:00

    Yeah. Well, I live in a small town, so I definitely see kids in the community on repeat. I’m really fortunate with the organization, the like teens in foster care organization, that I get to work with their group home. And though that does have turnover, it’s been really amazing. I actually the school district pays me to work with them. They have like a special grant, and so I get to go once a week and work with the group home, and it really, really helps me connect with them by getting to work with them regularly. And they really need people to take the time to get to know them, and I’ve seen a lot of growth in engagement with them because of that consistency.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  04:50

    That’s beautiful. Do you think that there was a defining moment in your life that had an impact on your creative journey?

    Steph Sneed  04:58

    Ooh, good question. Well, for this career, yes. So I actually was a professional ballet dancer before this, and so I’ve I say that I’ve worked in the arts like my whole like professional career, but I I have had kind of like a switch from like the dance to visual arts, and the way that happened was really organically. I was, I kind of had retired from dance, but I was actually babysitting a family in our area, and the kids moved away, and I realized that I really didn’t want to, and when I was babysitting them, all we did was art together, and I I realized when they moved away, or as I was preparing to like say goodbye to them, that I didn’t want to stop working with kids in this way. They just filled this like hole in my heart, and like also they were wonderful collaborators. So that was the moment. Like that was a big moment in my career where I was like, “Okay, I guess I’m gonna try this out. And crazy enough, it worked.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  06:16

    So, kind of along the same lines, before entering your field, did you have any fears about that?

    Steph Sneed  06:23

    Yeah, of course. I mean, I didn’t know if my idea would work. I and also because I hadn’t really trained all my training. It was in the arts. It was in the arts, and I went to like a boarding school for ballet, and like I’ve like and I went to the San Francisco Conservatory of Dance and like I have lived and worked in the arts, but I hadn’t really technically been in the trained in like the visual art field. But I, all my dance education had taught me how to basically pay attention to what my ideas are and learn how to like execute those ideas, and so that really translated into like this whole thing, and give me the confidence to try it, even though I hadn’t gone to like art school necessarily like visual art school, but as I’ve done all this work, I’ve also learned and gained a lot more confidence in my visual art skills, of course, and I’m always hungry to learn more. So yeah, I think those were some fears, but I wasn’t I wasn’t that afraid because I knew, like, from the experience that I had with the kids, that it was fun. Like, whatever we tried together, we were all learning, and it was fun. And so, I was like, if anyone is willing to take a chance on me, I think this is going to be fun for everybody who tries it, and I’ll just be committed to keep learning and getting better, and paying attention to how kids learn. And so, does that answer the question?

    Sarah Jane Thomas  08:09

    Yeah, perfectly. Okay. I was going to ask what inspired you to move beyond those fears, but you kind of encompassed the whole thing for me. Okay.

    Steph Sneed  08:16

    Sorry.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  08:17

    No. Please don’t apologize. This is wonderful. Do you have any advice for young adults or students interested in pursuing a similar career path?

    Steph Sneed  08:28

    I guess so. You have well, you have to be smart, especially like financially. You have to play the game of like how. You really do have to pay attention to. You can’t just go on like your love of art. Like you have to become a business person as well, and so I’ve learned that the best way that I can get like gigs and stuff is to package it nicely, like come up with how it’s going, come up with the plan for how it’s going to benefit the person you’re working with, and like explain that in a concise and clear way, and then just be committed to what you’re doing. Like do a good job with what you’re offering. Like pay attention and be a good communicator. Like those are all like really key elements. But also just like when you get started, you just have to be a little bit brave and show up and ask people if they’re interested in sharing an experience like this with you. Like one of the gigs that I got for a while was at a assisted living place, and what I did was I just showed up with I made this like pumpkin cottage. Like I bought like a little pumpkin from Target, and I like made all these like. Pieces for it that I glued onto it that made it look like a little cottage. I made it out of polymer clay and painted it, and I brought the pumpkin in, and I was like, “Hey, would you guys like it if I like did a class with you and I could teach you guys how to make this pumpkin, like a pumpkin cottage? And they were like, “That is amazing. Yes, and actually, that whole class ended up falling through that time. But later, they reached out to me, and they invited me to come later. And I worked with them for almost a year. And just similarly, like with the organization with the foster teens is called the Trent Hill Center, and I had I think I asked them if they wanted to do the pumpkin cottages as well, and they say yes. So so yeah, I think just being willing to like put yourself out there a little bit. Be kind. Don’t burn bridges, especially if you’re in the community of South Carolina. It’s kind of you know it’s a very small town vibe. Like I think across the state, and so I guess that yeah. I think that’s how I answer that question.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  11:22

    Well, aside from knowing how to build pumpkin cottages, are there any other particular skills one should practice before entering your career path or industry?

    Steph Sneed  11:33

    Well, yeah. I mean, I think if you’re wanting to be like an art teacher or like a community Art teacher, you do also need to, like I said, it kind of goes back to like the business, the business mindset. You have to like price things out, and you have to figure out how to make it affordable for your customers. Also, you have to know who your customers are, and I think something that drives me crazy is when people just consider art a business because it’s like you have to love it, like you have to believe in it, and then that helps you make your business decisions, like have an identity, and like your passion for it becomes your identity, and then you can make your decisions from, from like why you care about what you care about. Like for instance, like my son is autistic, and that’s why I like love to work with the occupational therapist nonprofit because I’m kind of uniquely I’m not like a professional therapist, but the experience that I have with my son makes me a little bit more uniquely qualified to at least facilitate classes where kids with who need like additional support, like that’s like that’s a great area for me to explore. And so, like paying attention to what you care about, what makes you mad, like what upsets you, and creating solutions like is really important because if you go through it identity less and you’re just copying things that you’re seeing like other art groups doing, it’s not going to be as interesting, and they’re going to like they don’t really have a reason to pick you over anybody else to select you to be the person who’s going to hold or host or facilitate. So, those are some of my thoughts on that. Yeah.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  13:45

    Well, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Would you be open to talking to our team again?

    Steph Sneed  13:52

    Sure. Yeah.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  13:54

    Perfect. We will send you the transcript from this interview. Do you have any of those questions you were wondering about at the beginning of this.

    Steph Sneed  14:02

    So I guess I guess I’m curious, like who I looked at the website a little bit, but like who does this reach?

    Sarah Jane Thomas  14:11

    A big part is students like me. I go to Coastal Carolina, and so obviously me working on the project, I’m aware of it. My boss Alli will go into different classes and speak to different students about it. We also have a big Gullah Geechee presence on campus, and so any opportunity, like we have days for it, and so any opportunity to do some kind of outreach, we kind of talk about this. It’s a big thing for students still trying to figure out like where we are in the world and like what we can do with our passions, and so like especially you talking about formally being a ballerina and now coming into this world, like I think it’s a big pathfinder, I guess, for students like me. So that’s kind of what it’s intended for, but it’s also intended for people in the community to understand their other community members. So that’s kind of what this specific project is.

    Steph Sneed  15:12

    Oh, that’s really cool. That’s cool.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  15:14

    Yeah, I send it like my grandmother looks at it and like sees all the different peoples, and I think too it helps. Like it can be used as a tool for business as well, because we have a lot of artistic creators. We have a lot of film directors. We have theater producers. We have game makers. So it’s kind of just like it could be used as a little directory as well.

    Steph Sneed  15:39

    Oh, okay. Yeah, I like that.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  15:41

    It kind of does a lot of things, reaches a lot of people.

    Steph Sneed  15:45

    That’s great. I love that.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  15:47

    Yeah. So we’ll get the interview transcript sent off to you if you want anything edited or cut. Feel free to tell us. And if you have any questions, you can always reach out to that email.

    Steph Sneed  15:59

    Okay.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  15:59

     So thank you so much.

    Steph Sneed  16:01

    Thank you too. Great questions.

    Sarah Jane Thomas  16:02

    Thank you. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

    Steph Sneed  16:05

    You too. Bye.

  • Bonnie Harris-Lowe

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe

    Audio

    Transcript

    Sarah Jane Thomas  00:00 

    My name is Sarah Jane Thomas, and today we are talking with Bonnie Harris-Lowe, a professional creative working from and within South Carolina. As we get started, can you tell us your current career and where you’re from? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  00:13 

    So currently, I am an instructor at the University of South Carolina, and I also have my own business, which is a combination work for hire and game development studio. I live in Columbia, South Carolina, currently. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  00:28 

    Perfect. Before we get into details, we have a brief section of the interview called “One Career 60 Seconds”, where you describe your job in 60 seconds or less, similar to a little elevator pitch. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  00:44 

    Go ahead and give it a shot. Sorry.  

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  00:47 

    Okay, no, you’re good. Basking Bee Games is a combination work for hire and volunteer game development studio. Since our founding in 2023, we have been hired by multiple clients, including Legend Stories Studios, and have released a game demo, which was showcased at DreamHack Dallas and the Southeast Game Exchange. We are currently working on a multiplayer party game called Wardrobe Dysfunction internally, while continuing to work on active external contracts. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  01:16 

    That sounds absolutely perfect. Thank you so much for playing our little game. 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  01:20 

    Yeah, no problem. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  01:21 

    So, what would you describe your official job title as?  

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  01:26 

    Within Basking Bee, I’m the founder and sole full-time member. So, CEO, creative director, either of those would apply. But as far as oh, sorry, no, okay, I didn’t want to just like clarify. As far as the studio, I’m the creative director, as far as operations and everything, but when it comes to our internal projects, I do like to spread the responsibility around. 

    So, I wouldn’t say I’m the creative director for like every project that we’re doing. The development side is a much more flat structured collaborative effort. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  02:09 

    Okay, so as a CEO and creative director, is there anything in South Carolina or where you’ve grown up and lived that brings something new to your work that you think others in your field don’t necessarily have? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  02:26 

    Interesting question. So, I don’t think I said before–I live in Columbia now, but I grew up in Greenville, South Carolina. So, I’ve been here most of my life. I went to graduate school in California and lived there for three years, where I studied. I got my master’s in game design and interactive media there, and what was interesting about that experience was they were kind of in… California, obviously, is a huge hub for entertainment in all sectors, including game development in the U.S. Whereas South Carolina, North Carolina has a few game studios, but South Carolina doesn’t really have that much of a scene in that in that industry.  

    So, I think as far as growing up here, I feel like a common theme with growing up in South Carolina is it gets you it gets you kind of underestimated, kind of labeled in some less than favorable ways by people who aren’t from here. I’ve seen through like mentorship opportunities that I’ve done at high schools and summer camps and things living here that there is a lot of creativity and a lot of thirst to work in these creative spaces, including games.  

    I just kind of want to not only put forth my own creative energy but also focus on doing it in South Carolina because I know that there are that there’s a lot of potential here, and I want to help kind of bring that to the forefront over the course of my career. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  04:06 

    Oh, that’s really beautiful, actually.  

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  04:08 

    Oh, thanks. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  04:10 

    Do you think that there was like a defining moment in your life that had a big impact on your creative journey, or a particular project? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  04:21 

    I can think of two big moments. So, the first one was when I was around eight years old. I was playing The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, and you know, prior to that, I’d been gaming for about three years at the time I started, when I was around five. There’s a character in Wind Waker who is a little girl with brown skin, and spoiler alert: later in the game, it’s revealed that she is the princess in disguise. And when that is revealed, she goes through a transformation sequence, and her skin turned white, which really messed me up. Because as I had noticed already, that there weren’t a lot of women, especially or brown women or brown people at all, in video games, unless they were villains.  

    So, seeing a little brown girl who looked like me was really impactful, and then watching that get washed away literally just really broke my heart and made me think, “You know, if I ever start making games, I’m gonna do something about this.”  

    Then, as I was growing up, I learned more about what working in the games industry traditionally is like with bad labor practices and toxicity from within companies and within the community at large, especially being a woman of color, which kind of gave me pause. But when I went to undergrad at the University of South Carolina, which is again where I’m teaching now, I took every single class on games that I could find while still trying to figure out which part of a creative industry I would, which creative sector I wanted to work in.  

    In one of the games classes I took, we watched a documentary called Indie Game: the Movie, which hasn’t aged the best. But at the time, watching it and seeing the stories of these developers, you know, struggling but ultimately meeting their goals, it kind of made me cry and just gave me the sense that like that’s what I’m supposed to be doing, regardless of all of the horror stories. I knew I had to at least give it a try. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  06:32 

    Are you? I’m assuming you’re happy that you did…. 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  06:35 

    For the most part. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  06:38 

    Is there something particular that you felt showcased your creativity in a way that you’ve never been able to before? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  06:46 

    The biggest example is the demo that Basking Bee released in 2023 called Project Parallel, which started out as my graduate thesis project, but I was not able to finish it because my last semester of graduate school was Spring 2020. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  07:08 

    Oh. 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  07:09 

    Yes, and that kind of threw a big wrench into my team’s productivity, and you know, totally understandable. And it took me a few years to get back to it, and by the time I did, I’d already founded the Basking Bee label, so I decided to release it under that name. And in 2024, that’s the game that was showcased at two different games exhibitions.  

    I remember I have a TikTok floating around somewhere of walking into DreamHack and setting up the booth and everything. And when I saw the name of the game on my empty booth, once again, I started crying. I’m a very teary, emotional person, but yeah, that was just a really amazing feeling. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  07:55 

    Yeah, this is something that you’ve kind of already touched on a little bit, but I think a more direct question would help. Before entering your field, did you have any fears about being a professional? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  08:08 

    Yes, numerous. So yeah, like I said, the games industry is not known for being a welcoming place for women and people of color or LGBTQ people, for that matter. Just I’m not really. I don’t really fall into that category, so I tend to focus on the other two when talking about myself, but I digress. A few, I think, a year at the year after I, the year I graduated high school or my first year of college, is when the Gamergate incident happened, which was a massive harassment campaign against a targeted select few female game devs, who you know they received death threats, rape threats.  

    They were doxxed. They had to flee their homes and things like that. One of them wasn’t even a game developer. She was a content creator who just talked about feminism and representation of women in games. Somebody actually made a game where the premise was just you get to beat that woman up. Yeah, it’s pretty dark stuff, and so that really like scared me. Like if I ever get too loud about what I’m doing, get too get too feminist, get too woke, as I think I would call it these days. Like, is that kind of thing going to happen to me?  

    And then on top of that, if I were to work at a larger studio, I learned about ‘crunch,’ which is when going back to the bad labor practices, the most infamous in the games industry is the idea of crunch, where people basically have to live at their jobs and work like 80-hour weeks, no overtime for months at a time, which just does not sound sustainable for anybody. I don’t know how people out there do it. I’m sure that I could not.  

    So, between those two things, just to illustrate in greater detail what my trepidation was, I was definitely frightened. But I’ve kind of gone down a path. Obviously, I’m not working at a big Triple A studio. I can set my own hours and kind of am in control of my own schedule, my own voice. And because we’re such a small studio, there’s also not much of a reason to target any of us at the moment, which is nice. I don’t know if that will last forever because I would like to have a bigger name out there.  

    But yeah, I’ve managed to squeak through all of the problems that I have described, and you know I know better now what I’m willing to accept and what I’m not if I ever were to pivot to working for a game studio again, and there’s one other thing I wanted to say on that subject, but I can’t remember, so I’ll stop there. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  11:13 

    Okay. Aside from, you know, you setting up your own company and being able to do all of this yourself, are there any other things that kind of helped you continue and push forward into this field?  

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  11:28 

    I would definitely have to shout out my two collaborators for that, Jessica and Pernima. Pernima is still a student and an absolute rock star programmer, and Jessica is a longtime friend. We met at what was my first industry job in games? I think it might have been her first job in games as well. She is a prolific 2D artist. She was also a bridesmaid in my wedding. So, we’ve known each other for oh my gosh, it’s been like six years now. But yes, they are working with me on our new game, Wardrobe Dysfunction, and it’s just really nice having somebody to touch base with every week. We stream on Fridays at 5:30pm on Twitch. The channel is called Basking Bee Games, if you want to check it out.  

    But yes, just having that time to collaborate with people who, while we’re all making something that we are excited about, because you know, working by yourself can get pretty lonely. It can be hard to motivate yourself, especially for like the internal projects. But the contract stuff, it’s easier because that’s somebody who’s hiring me and paying me to perform a service for them, whereas the internal development can get easily pushed off because it’s just like something I’m doing in my free time.  

    Doing contract work and now teaching–it’s exhausting. So, definitely having people who are willing to come along on this ride with me, and who have been so instrumental in you know the process of brainstorming, creating this idea, and now building this game has been lovely. So big shoutouts to them! 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  13:23 

    Oh, good! I’m glad you had people to come alongside of you. Do you have any advice for young adults or students who have an interest in pursuing a similar career path? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  13:35 

    Yes. So, I think the games industry is in a weird spot right now. So, another problem in the games industry is layoffs are rampant. Oh, I remember the thing I was going to say earlier. There are starting to be movements towards unionization in games, especially in QA (quality assurance), which is one considered a lower rung or lower tier job in games, even though it’s extremely important. So, I’m optimistic about unionization efforts for the future of games.  

    So, if you want to work at a big studio, know that I would say keep watch on those kinds of efforts. See which companies are supporting those versus which ones are trying to suppress them. But the future of the games, I think, right now is pivoting towards indie studios, independent development, because in 2023, the layoffs we experienced were in historic numbers.  

    I think there’s a whole Wikipedia page just on layoffs in 2023, even though it’s always been a common thing. And since then, there’s been a big upswing in people who are working at indie studios, starting indie studios like what I did, or even forming volunteer teams, which is essentially what Basking Bee is as far as the internal development part, like with the contracting. Obviously, we get income from that, but the internal development, we are all volunteering our time for that.  

    I had the good fortune of meeting Alla Derrick at a game jam in 2023. I want to say, or yeah, 2023 or four, and she shortly after that started a company called Cave Bear Games, which is now a nonprofit volunteer game studio. Their whole mission is to connect small studios to each other, to aspiring talent, and just help people find other people to make games with. That’s how I found Pernima, who is the backbone of this organization’s programming, so I think being willing to volunteer your time and look for those opportunities to collaborate with people who can fill in the gaps in your skill set and who can motivate you to continue working and whom you like working with is a big first step.  

    Even if you do want to transition into working at a more traditional studio, the best thing that you can have in your portfolio, if you want to be a game designer and apply to game design companies, is a game that you’ve already finished and released. So, I think looking for those volunteer opportunities and those collaborators that you can be close with and maintain relationships with, and you know ideally keep working with, is a critical first step. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  16:37 

    I guess along the same lines of finding people and continuing with people and finding those opportunities to volunteer your time, are there any particular skills you would suggest refining before stepping into the career path? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  16:52 

    I mean, it’s never a bad idea to learn to code. That’s one of the most in-demand and secure career paths in game dev. I personally am not a programmer. I have tried to learn several times. I know enough to do basic things, but it stresses me out so much. I have not been able to breakthrough that barrier to doing the more advanced things. But knowing at least how to build simple things with code will help you contribute. It will help you contribute to volunteer projects.  

    It might not get you a job unless you are really dedicated to learning the more advanced stuff. But if you do want to go down that path, again, it’s very secure. The two big game engines that I would recommend are Unity and Unreal Engine; they’re both free to download. Unity is much more common at small indie studios. A lot of big studios have their own custom engines, but if they don’t, a lot of them will use Unreal because it’s a bit higher fidelity. It’s got a lot more bells and whistles than Unity.  

    Other than that, learning the basics of game design, game theory can help if you already have some creative background. It can help you learn how to pivot those skills into games because let’s say you’re coming from television or you’re coming from music or something, the skills that you have in those fields are transferable, but they do need to be tweaked when you are incorporating interactivity into the medium.  

    So, learning how interactivity can change and augment the skills that you already have is also a great step. So, the last thing I’d say on that is, if you want to work at a larger studio, it’s good to specialize in something. Whether that’s programming, whether it’s animation or character rigging, that’s a big one. If you want to do 3d characters, a lot of people can animate and model, rigging is a bit more of a specialized skill set, but if you want to work at a bigger company, specializing in one thing and showcasing that a lot is a good idea. Whereas if you want to work at an indie studio, it’s generally a good idea to develop and showcase multiple different skills across your projects because at indie studios, it’s much more common that you will have to do multiple jobs because the teams are smaller. So yes, I’d say tailor your skills to the kind of studio that you want to work at. Does that help? 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  19:43 

    Yes. Okay. I just want to thank you so much for talking with me and taking the time out of your day. Out of your day, would you be willing to talk to one of my team members again? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  19:55 

    Sure. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  19:56 

    Well, I will take that off. I have a personal question. I would like to ask you. Okay, have you ever read the book, Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow? 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  20:05 

    I have not. Let me look it up really quick. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  20:07 

    It is. I think it takes place over the span of like 25 years, and it’s about these three people who go on to develop these games. I haven’t read it in a few years, so I can’t remember like all the specifics. But just hearing you talk about the Unreal Engines and stuff like that just reminded me of it, and I feel like it might be up your alley a little bit. Yes, but it is a really good book. 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  20:36 

    I’m skimming the Wikipedia right now. It does look very interesting and super applicable to what I was talking about. That’s why check this out. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  20:43 

    That’s why I wanted to ask because hearing you talk about all of this, I’m like, I have read a book about this stuff.  

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  20:49 

    Yeah, there you go. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  20:51 

    Well, it was wonderful to meet you. Thank you so much for talking with us. We will get a transcript of your interview, and I believe the video clips to it, and your profile all sent to you, so you can check over that. Thank you. 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  21:05 

    All right, thanks so much. 

    Sarah Jane Thomas  21:06 

    Have a good rest of your day. 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe  21:08 

    You too. Bye. 

  • Kelley Pettibone

    Kelley Pettibone

    Interview

    Transcript 

    00:00 Victoria Bartolotto

    Hello, everybody.

    My name is Victoria, and today we are talking with Kelly Pettibone, a professional creative working from and within South Carolina.

    As we get started, can you tell us about your current career and where you are currently located?

    00:14 Kelley Pettibone

    Yeah, I live in Columbia, South Carolina, and I am an educator. I teach for the School of Visual Art and Design at the University of South Carolina in Columbia.

    As an artist, as a working artist, I mainly am a printmaker, but also mixed media artist and sculptor. I’m a mom and a dog mom. I’m a wife and my husband is a retired Army veteran and a disabled veteran.

    So, I wear many hats. I do a lot of different things.

    00:50 Victoria Bartolotto

    Okay. Before we get into the nitty gritty details of being a professional educator, but also a studio artist, we have a brief section of our interview called “One Career, Sixty Seconds,” where you give an elevator style pitch about what your work is and how it kind of functions. Are you ready?

    01:08 Kelley Pettibone

    I’m ready.

    01:08 Victoria Bartolotto

    Okay, you can go ahead.

    01:11 Kelley Pettibone

    All right. Primarily printmaking and mixed media collage art, I focus mainly on grief. That’s the nature of my art. My art was born in grief as a therapy for myself. I look to my studio as a way to heal myself and work through my grief. That has blossomed now into more of a joyful space.

    I also work sculpturally. I entertain the idea of home and what home means to me in the essence of losing my entire family in a decade of time. That is kind of where all my body of work began and where it has continued to grow, through living with that grief rather than living in grief. I love to do art as therapy, but it’s become so much more.

    02:05 Victoria Bartolotto

    Wow. I know art speaks to a lot of people and with that being your main focus, is there anything about South Carolina in particular that brings, in addition to your family and the grief that you experienced, does the state or your particular region or the city of Columbia bring anything to your art as well?

    02:25 Kelley Pettibone

    It does. My father passed away of leukemia, and he was treated at the MUSC Center in Charleston. My parents lived for a while down across the street from the Folly Beach Pier in Folly Beach. That’s where he was getting treatment. I used repurposed wood when they rebuilt the Folly Beach Pier. I was able to get a lot of that wood.

    I use that in my sculptural work because of the place and it’s from Folly Beach. It’s significant to South Carolina in the region.

    03:07 Victoria Bartolotto

    So that project with the reclaimed wood is just one of many. Is there another project in particular that had an impact on your creative journey as well?

    03:17 Kelley Pettibone

    Absolutely. In working with my mother, she passed away in 2018 on Mother’s Day, so May has been a big month for me. I had all of her clothing after she passed away. No one tells you what to do with people’s stuff. You have to make these rough decisions.

    As a printmaker, I needed paper. And so, I took her cotton clothing and pulped it and turned it into paper. That was a significant experience in learning to let go of things, but repurposing it into something that’s going to be useful for me in my art practice.

    I have now started a whole new series of handmade paper using four generations of denim. It’s my grandmother’s, my mother’s, mine, and my daughter’s blue jeans. So all denim. So, I have quite the denim pulp happening at the moment.

    Things like that, learning how to let things go, but then repurposing it into something else within your art and giving it a new space and then sending it out in the world to exhibit or wherever it ends up. It’s kind of cool and fascinating.

    04:31 Victoria Bartolotto

    Before entering becoming a studio artist full-time and obviously with teaching and things like that, did you have any fears about pursuing studio art as a full-time job? Was there anything that kept you back from maybe pursuing that as a source of income? If there was, what might have inspired you to continue beyond it?

    04:58 Kelley Pettibone

    Right now, I’m entertaining the idea of, and I haven’t yet, and only because I’ve been holding back. I wasn’t ready to pull the plug yet on it, but I want to join like art events as a vendor to sell art outside of a gallery environment, but in like an art fair and community events.

    I want to do that in terms of like the capitalism side of selling my art, but I work to fund my art. That’s kind of why, being an educator and getting that check from being an educator helps fund my studio passion and my art helps me buy more materials so that I can do that.

    Well, now I’m at a point where I have a lot of art and I need to get rid of it. I’m running out of space. So now I’m at the point where how do I sell this and how do I do both? How do I make money being an educator as well as making money being a studio artist? It’s great I can make it, but now I need to figure out selling it.

    06:12 Victoria Bartolotto

    Can you talk a little bit about the gallery experience and how a student who might be wanting to pursue becoming a studio artist or have their art exhibited in a gallery? Can you talk a little bit about that and how that works?

    06:26 Kelley Pettibone

    Yeah, it’s a full-time job in and of itself. I’m trying to find open calls, who’s looking for work, for what type of work, making sure that your work fits in that space. My work, because it’s grief in nature, doesn’t fit in a lot of places. So, you kind of have to pick and choose.

    Also, if it’s sculptural art, it might be an environment where there are a lot of traffic. Maybe sculpture isn’t okay to say show in a bookstore where there’s going to be children and families and things like that.

    So, you kind of have to know the gallery or do your homework and research the places. But it’s a lot of time spent on the computer. It’s a lot of administrative type work in the looking, but also in the applying. I had someone tell me one time, “if you haven’t collected a box of nos, then you haven’t made it yet as an artist.” Throwing all the pasta at the wall and seeing what sticks, basically.

    You have to be okay with being told no. I’ve applied and reapplied at places, I’ve been told no and then reapplied, and then I’ve been told yes with the same body of work. So maybe it’s just not the right time, but maybe later. And I’ve been told no, not this year, but next year, and that’s okay. You can put it on a back burner for next year.

    Planning ahead and keeping a good calendar of what you have going on and what you have applied where, so you don’t overbook or double book your work. Last thing you want to do is have this body of work in one gallery and then you’ve promised another space the same images or the same pieces.

    So being a good juggler and a good manager but also being good administratively and researching.

    08:27 Victoria Bartolotto

    With the different types of mediums that you work with, do you approach each one through the lens of grief, or are there different lenses that you approach the different mediums through?

    08:40 Kelley Pettibone

    I kind of always seem to fall into that vein because it is so therapeutic for me. But when I work with printmaking, mainly I’m a woodcut printmaker and so I carve wood and carving is meditative, but it’s also very mindful.

    I have to be present while I’m carving because one carve and now it’s gone and I can’t get it back. So, you have to be fully present and fully mindful of what you’re doing in that.

    But whenever I am, say, mixed media collage or painting, it’s more playful and it’s more joyful and I can dance around and listen to music while I’m working, and I don’t have to necessarily be as mindful with that. And it is more of a playful in nature process for me and also very impromptu.

    When I am working in printmaking, it’s very planned and it’s very organized. I have to have an idea of where it’s going, or it’ll fall apart quickly. With collage, it’s very throw it all up in the air and see where it lands. And then if I don’t like it, just cover it up with paint, you know? So, it’s not a lot of planning at all, if any. I might start with a color story and that’s about the extent of the planning on that.

    But with sculpture, also, it’s more mindful. I have to kind of have an idea of what I’m going for and then sculpt it out. But it also can be more playful than the printmaking for me. So, I kind of go back and forth between the two or three or four. I might have three or four things going on.

    And when I’m tired of being present and I’m tired of being mindful, then I might say, “okay, it’s time to play.” Then I’ll go do something else that feels more playful for a while.

    10:34 Victoria Bartolotto

    It seems like there’s a good balance that you have.

    10:36 Kelley Pettibone

    Yeah, I try. I try to, and I don’t know if maybe it’s the ADD or the ADHD in me that I can’t sit still for very long. So, I have to kind of hop around in both process and in my pieces. I get bored with something for very long. And so, I can only sit here for a few hours and then I gotta, oh, I gotta go do something else.

    11:01 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah.

    11:02 Kelley Pettibone

    Seasonally, I’m like that in my own house too. Like I change around spaces and I change around things. I just get tired of it after a while and I have to do something different and freshen it up.

    11:14 Victoria Bartolotto

    Do you have any advice for young students, particularly like high school or freshmen in college who might want to pursue studio art and multimedia art as a profession? Do you have any advice? Are there any particular skills that they should have or a mindset they should go into it with?

    11:32 Kelley Pettibone

    The only real advice that I have after having taught studio art for a while is that I have a lot of students. The very first thing they’ll say at the beginning of the semester is, “I don’t know how to do this very well” or “I’m not a good drawer” or, you know, “I can’t draw” or “I can’t do this”. Nobody does when you begin.

    I didn’t even know of printmaking or like my idea of printmaking was making posters or t-shirts. I had no idea, and everyone starts somewhere. And don’t be afraid to learn and play and allow yourself to play because through play is when you learn what works well and what doesn’t work well.

    But also, I think my greatest advice, because I started as a biology anatomy major. That’s a heck of an adjustment. But I spent a lot of time and a lot of money in classes that didn’t translate over to studio art.

    But don’t spin your wheels and waste your time doing something because it’s what you feel like you ought to do. Or like, “I had an uncle that was a biologist. I should study biology.” No, you should not. You should admire your uncle for being that and what he was and his hard work. But if that is not innately you, that is not what you should do.

    And I feel like everyone should follow their passion. And if the world were full of people that were passionate about what they do every day, imagine the space we’d live in. I mean, it’d be different.

    13:21 Victoria Bartolotto

    It would be so different.

    13:23 Kelley Pettibone

    Everyone waiting to take your order would be so happy you’re here. “My pleasure,” everywhere. If it was like that, it would be wonderful. And I feel like that if making art is your passion, you’ll find a way. Everything else will fall into space. The money will come. All the questions will get answered. You will find a way to make it work if that is what your passion is.

    If it’s not what your passion is, then that’s gonna be a struggle bus. But if it is what you’re passionate about, then you will find a way. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. But definitely don’t do something because — I have a lot of students that are in my class, classes, studio art classes, and I’ll say, “what’s your major?” “Math.” “Why? Do you like your major?”

    And they’ll say, “well, I really wish that I was a studio art major, but–” and I’m like, “why aren’t you a studio art major?”

    And then they’ll say, “well, because I can’t make money at that, because my dad said I can’t make money at that.”

    Well, you can, make money at that. As a matter of fact, I have artist friends that sell art for the price of cars, houses. You can make money at that, but you have to decide how much you’re willing to sacrifice to make that happen in the beginning to make that money in the end. Passion is where it lies and do from the get-go what you are passionate about doing rather than having a 25-year college plan like I did before you finish up.

    15:20 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah, no, I can totally sympathize with that because I graduated with an English degree. And a lot of people come up to me and they’re like, “oh, what do you want to do with an English degree? Do you want to be a teacher?” And while teaching is an amazing profession, it is not for me. And I’m like, “oh, no, I want to be an author. I really want to write books.” And they’ll be like, “Authors don’t make any money. You won’t make any money.” It’s just like, well, I have a vision. I have a plan. I want to make it work. And so, I can totally sympathize with that kind of mindset, for sure.

    15:55 Kelley Pettibone

    I remember specifically coming home after I had discovered, I was in clinicals, and I was going through all of my notes. I had tons of notebooks full of all anatomy stuff. And I was going through all my notebooks, and I realized that all my notes were drawings. I draw all my notes rather than write notes. I have pictorial notes.

    And all my notes were mainly drawings of like body parts and like the human body and its inner workings. And I thought, “I’m an artist”. That’s what I am. I don’t want to be stuck in a lab for the rest of my life.

    There’s no creativity in that, and like you feel about teachers. That’s a life for somebody, but that is not the life for me. That is not what I want to do. We need those people, but that is not my jimmy jam. I went home and I told my parents, I remember I was not living at home at the time, but I told them one night over dinner, I said, “I’ve decided that I’m gonna change my major.”

    And both of them were like, “what?” And I said, “I’m going to art school.” And I remember my dad, who was a chemical engineer, he said, “How are you going to support yourself being an artist? Like you’re going to be one of those people that sit on the side of the road and tries to sell art out of your trunk. Like, how are you going to do that?” And I was like, “I don’t know if I haven’t figured it out yet, but I will.”

    And my mom, she was always so supportive and she was like, “Well, I know you’ll do it, and you’ll do great because you’ve been drawing since you were like 2. So, I think you’re going to be fantastic. Like maybe you can make Hallmark cards.” That’s what she said.

    17:43 Victoria Bartolotto

    That’s what my mom said, too! She was like, “You can write for Hallmark.” And I was like, “I don’t know, maybe?”

    17:49 Kelley Pettibone

    You write it; I’ll make it comical. There we go! It’s a collaboration.

    I just remember them thinking, “How are you gonna do this?” But my mom being very supportive, but also she couldn’t support you forever. I know now, once I figured out that I do love teaching, I love teaching, I love creating artists. That’s like my thing.

    Like, I believe everybody is an artist. You’re an artist. You’re an artist of words.

    18:25 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah.

    18:25 Kelley Pettibone

    We’re all artists in our own way. You don’t necessarily have to be a painter or a sculptor. We all have a gift and that’s an art. Being able to write is an art. You’re in the literary arts. I couldn’t write a book. Maybe I don’t know. But I have written poems and poetry. So, it’s all an art and we’re all creatives in some way.

    I feel like being a teacher is kind of the vein where I fell into and creating and encouraging students to follow their passion is like right where I belong.

    And that funding my art, you know, my independent art as a fine artist, as a studio artist, that’s necessary. But also having a creative space for me is necessary. My grandmother used to say, “Idle hands are a devil’s workshop.” And that’s true. Like I cannot not create. That’s essential for me. It’s essential to get all of these feelings and all of these thoughts out.

    If it becomes a whole body of work that gets shown in an exhibition, if it touches somebody, even if just one person, job well done, you know?

    19:51 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I sincerely appreciate it.

    19:59 Kelley Pettibone

    Enjoy your summer and congratulations to you.

    20:01 Victoria Bartolotto

    Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I hope you have a lovely day.

    20:04 Kelley Pettibone

    All right, you too.

  • Steph Sneed

    Steph Sneed

    “If you get bored, they’ll get bored.” 

    Quick Facts

    Level of Education: High School; Conservatory 

    Years of Experience: 5 Years

    About

    Steph Sneed is the founder and director of an arts education program serving children, teens, and adults across Darlington and neighboring counties in South Carolina’s PeeDee and Grand Strand region. Her path to this work began not in a classroom but in a living room, where she babysat a family of girls and did art with them every day. When they moved away, the realization came quickly: she didn’t want to stop. That impulse became a vocation. 

    Steph designs all of her own programming and works exclusively in small groups of six, a deliberate choice that allows for the kind of depth and individual attention that traditional art education settings rarely offer. Alongside her after-school classes, she creates specialized programming for teens in foster care and brings a particular dedication to neurodivergent artists, meeting each student where they are. 

    Before founding her program, Steph trained as a ballet dancer and performed professionally. Letting herself step away from the discipline she had devoted her life to, and permitting herself to draw in her room, to follow an emerging interest, was one of the hardest and most important decisions she ever made. “If I didn’t do that,” she reflects, “I would have held myself back from discovering an even bigger passion.” 

    Her advice to fellow educators and creatives is simple and hard-earned: stay engaged, stay present, and never phone it in. The students will always know the difference. 

  • Bonnie Harris-Lowe 

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe 

    “Learn as much as you can online” 

    Quick Facts

    Education: University of South Carolina

    Years of Experience: 6 Years

    About

    Bonnie Harris-Lowe is the creative director of Basking Bee, a gaming company dedicated to collaboration and self-determination, as well as a full-time instructor at the University of South Carolina. Her studio works to produce independent games while taking on freelance work for interactive projects. Bonnie has a passion for making the gaming industry a space for girls and people of color, and she is determined to change games for the better. 

    Bonnie has been playing video games since the age of six, but she felt a sense of hostility toward her race and gender. After experiencing the “Gamer Gate harassment scandal” in high school, she took classes in multiple forms of media production and decided she wanted to change the world of gaming, starting with creating her own company. She highlights the importance of “learn[ing] as much as you can,” especially to be able to “meet likeminded creatives.” 

    There is more than what meets the eye at Basking Bee Games. While most gaming studios choose between creating content or doing contract work, Bonnie’s does both.  Bonnie proudly states, “Basking Bee was designed as a hybrid studio with the goal to build a collective portfolio for industry newcomers through independent games,” while working as a full-time instructor. 

  • Kelley Pettibone 

    Kelley Pettibone 

    “Do not be afraid of receiving rejections.” 

    Quick Facts

    Education: University of South Carolina

    Years of Experience: 15 Years

    About

    After realizing all her notes were filled with drawings and not written words for her biology major, Kelley Pettibone switched to Studio Art and never looked back. Currently, she is an Artist and Instructor at the University of South Carolina. She primarily works as a woodcut relief printmaker, but also dabbles in painting, mixed media collage, sculpture, and paper making.  

    During her BFA, she suffered a hard familial loss and struggled to find creativity. Over time, she channeled her feelings through her artistic practice to visually document her journey through grief. Kelley is an advocate for the healing nature of creating art and refers to her studio as a “sanctuary.” She insists that “a box full of ‘no’s’ indicates that you are putting yourself out there and trying,” and emphasizes the importance of continuously submitting your work. 

    Kelley enjoys fusing inherited family ephemera and repurposed materials. In her next project she will be reimagining denim, a fabric spanning the age of four generations, to make paper. Kelley strives to express her emotions through her work and allow her creativity to live a life beyond herself. She loves teaching and advises any potential graduate student to experience an Assistantship, feeling as though every class is “a series of playdates each day.” 

  • Ronda Taylor

    Ronda Taylor

    In this episode, we’re exploring what it means to find your voice with poet, storyteller and publisher Ronda Taylor as a writer and program director at Youth Empowerment services in Charleston, South Carolina, Ronda has leaned on her creative passions to uplift and connect with her community.

    Transcript

    CreativePaths_RondaTaylor_TranscriptDownload
  • Thurayya UmBayemake

    Thurayya UmBayemake

    In this episode, we’re navigating finding your place in theatre education with Thurayya UmBayemake, a Coaching Teacher with the Spark! Program at the SC Governor’s School of the Arts and Humanities. Thurayya is based in Columbia, but she works around the state guiding a team of teaching artists working with elementary school children to learn reading and storytelling. While Thurayya has lived all over the United States, a series of opportunities brought her to South Carolina.

    Transcript

    CreativePaths_ThurayyaUmBaeymake_TranscriptDownload
  • Philip Mullen

    Philip Mullen

    “It’s a very fortunate blessing to find something in life that you like enough that you do it before you’re paid for it.” 

    Philip Mullen is a painter and professor emeritus. Philip Mullen reflects on decades of artmaking and mentoring and why South Carolina and a bathtub shaped his creative life. 

    Interview

    Transcript

     Nora Smith 00:00 

    Alright, to start. What do you do for work, and where are you currently working from?  

    Philip Mullen 00:07 

    Well, I’m a painter of large acrylic paintings, and I have a studio in Columbia. My studio is designed for large paintings. It’s 1300 square feet made as a studio for that. Actually, when I first built the studio in 1989 and when, right after I built it, a national magazine was running this…It was called, The Artist Magazine, and I think it may have had the biggest circulation of any art magazine at the time, because it was, it was aimed at a really clever group, and that was amateur artists who think they’re pros, a very large audience. But it’s, you know, it’s a great audience. It’s a wonderful thing for people to go into. But they used mine as an example of how to set up big paintings.   

    And the two, the two items that kind of got them interested was, I needed a big sink. Big sinks are really expensive, but mobile home Bathtubs are really pretty cheap, and you can mount them up high, like a sink. Of course, the guys who installed it kept saying, what are you going to have a ladder to get into this thing? No, no, guys, it’s a sink. It’s a sink.  

    And then during the time I did, it was, I was represented for 35 years by David Finley galleries in New York.  And those shows, you know, I had, like I said, 14 solo shows with them over the 35 years. And those shows often would have 40 to 45 pieces, half of which have six-foot dimensions, or half of which just had a four-foot dimension, and maybe a few larger ones included. And because the way I do my edges, I can’t set them down, but I’d have a lot of paintings collected up at any one given time. And I designed a very simple rack that I could hang 46-foot paintings on without the edges touching anything.  

    More of an answer than you probably needed. I warn you, I was once interviewed on the radio, and after 10 minutes, the interviewer said, Mr. Mullin, I was kind of hoping to ask a second question. 

    Nora Smith 02:45 

    Okay, well, this one kind of wraps in with the first one. How long have you been working there, and what is your official job title?  

    Philip Mullen 02:53 

    Well, my only official job title now is artist. And I guess I have a sort of official job title as distinguished professor emeritus from USC. I had a very good arrangement with USC. I taught there from 69 to 2000 and, but I took nine, I did not teach in summers, and I took nine years of leave during that time. So, I taught 22 because those New York shows took an enormous amount of time to put together. You really put it this way, my art gallery friends were very suspicious of my teaching, because they said, if you teach, you can’t paint enough. And my teaching friends were very suspicious of my art gallery’s success because they said, “You can’t sell without selling out.” And each of those things probably has some basis in possibility, but there’s certainly things you have to watch out for.  

    Nora Smith 04:06 

    Yeah, well, you just do, you do it all. 

    Philip Mullen 04:10 

    Well, I was a bit of an obsessive worker for decades and decades. It didn’t make me socially very interested, but I got a lot of artwork done. And the teaching, you know, the teaching like that, was wonderful, because I didn’t end up doing it quite, it wasn’t like I was doing it all the time. You know that one period where I literally was taking half, where I had 12 years and only taught during fall semesters, yeah, and so it made my teaching much more exciting for me, and it was like a chance to talk to bright young people about the only thing I knew anything about. And it, you know, while I’m sure there were other teachers that were more talented, as teachers, than I was.  

    The one thing I could bring to it was especially like the graduate students might see me working on a particular painting and then end up seeing that painting reproduced in Arts Magazine, for example. And so, it brought the sense, I think, to students, that it could be something bigger. That was especially  true before I built the studio in 89 because I had a studio at the university furnished and, you know, graduate students and undergraduates were in and out of that while I was down there. 

    Nora Smith 05:40 

    That’s so cool.  

    Philip Mullen 05:42 

    Well, I tell you, it’s, you know, its a very fortunate blessing to find something in life that you like enough that you do it before you’re paid for it. You do it if you’re paid for you do it if you’re not paid for it, you know people, they said, “Oh, man, you’re so disciplined, you’re always in the studio.” I wasn’t disciplined. I was self-indulgent. I was doing what I, you know, that’s what I wanted to be doing.  

    Nora Smith 06:11 

    Yeah. Super cool! Okay, so this is more of a question specific to your area, okay, in the creative field in South Carolina. What is one thing you love about working in the creative field in South Carolina? 

    Philip Mullen 06:29 

    Well, one thing that was that I found really great at first, when I was young and needed to get grants for something, was that while there may not be as many grants here as there are in a bigger city, when you stop to think about how many artists are per grants available, it’s pretty rich here. When I got with my gallery in New York, I’d had the good fortune of being included in a show called the Whitney Biennial. It’s a show at the Whitney Museum in New York, and in 1975, and I knew I wanted to have a gallery in New York, so I wanted to take advantage of that.  

    I took a year off of teaching, moved to New York, and did that, I did have sabbatical money that time. Most of my leaves were unpaid, but I went on sabbatical money.  I spent all of my own money, but got what was at the time, a quite large grant from the Arts Commission to go there. Rented three fifths of Andy Warhol’s old factory, lived and worked in that. Of course, lived illegally.  

    Nora Smith 07:42 

    The commitment, a lot of commitment there.  

    Philip Mullen 07:45 

    Yeah, I learned a couple of very important skills there because of living illegally, you know, because if you’re in a place that is selling commercial in New York, they only have to give you heat six days a week. Oh yes. And so first we crank the heat up, you know, very high on Saturday night and hope to survive till Monday. Later I learned two of the skills I developed was how to hotwire a locked elevator and how to start up a furnace in a big building. And none of the other tenants complained, and the building manager didn’t like the building owner. So, I’m sure he figured it out when he came in every Monday and the furnace was on.  

    Nora Smith 08:29 

    That’s so funny.  

    Philip Mullen 08:32 

    The art world, the painting world, has changed a good bit since then. Now I loved, absolutely loved the notion of earning money, selling paintings in New York and spending money in South Carolina. You can see where that might function. Of course, one of the things I did learn is, if you’re going to do that, you’re not just making paintings and somebody else is doing stuff for you. You are pretty constantly working on business things as well.  

    Nora Smith 09:06 

    For sure, for sure. Yeah. How would you describe your local professional community around you?  

    Philip Mullen 9:16 

    It’s a lot like most places. There’s a few people who are, who are, you know, real top-notch pros to deal with. There’s a lot of people who it’s a hobby for, and it’s a wonderful hobby to take up, you know, I mean, I was reading one time about in different professions, what age you peak at. Or you don’t want to be a female gymnast, you know, you peak very early in life, but being an artist was actually the thing that you the people peaked at the latest in life. Yeah, you know, it’s sort of something that you can do for a long time.  

    So, I would describe most of the community as a sort of normal hobbyist community. But one of the funny things, you know, in certain areas, there’s sort of funny things that occur in terms of how people develop, like, if you want to learn yoga real well, pretty quickly, you end up going into yoga teacher training. I mean, even if you don’t want to teach, you go through yoga teacher training, and all of a sudden, then you’re a trained yoga teacher.  

    Nora Smith 10:33 

    Yeah.  

    Philip Mullen 10:34 

    So, you’re out teaching yoga. If people go and take a painting, go into it. I mean, very quickly, way too quickly. Generally, they feel like they need to get out and start selling their stuff. And I’m a little suspect that was certainly not me. Now, when I did it, I got, I was obviously really serious about it, because, you know, I’ll tell you that year in New York, while it was professionally very important, it was very lonely, I’m going around to galleries, trying to get into galleries. They’re being approached every day by artists. Many of them are not very polite to you. You know, it pretty gruesome thing. You know, to be an artist, you’ve got to have it in one seat. You’ve got to have a big ego. I mean, the idea that, the idea that you can make something and somebody else should actually take time looking at it, is pretty amazing.  

    That they should actually pay you for it is incredible. But myself, like most artists I know, have very fragile egos. You know, it’s so getting out there and trying to do that part about promoting it is something.  

    Now, I did, you know, I lived in New York.  I did not want to raise a family in New York, like South Carolina, that way. You know, in 69 when I was looking for a university teaching position, I very specifically looked at the south, it’s one of those, you know, I didn’t know where I was raised. I went to nine schools before I was out of high school. You know, when I went to college, I thought I’d settle down, and most of us in states in the north, but for three years, it was in Texas, and that was the only place that the weather made any sense to me. So, I focused on South Carolina, and the position I got here worked out so so well for me. Fortunately, I never really had any reason to not want to just stay. 

    Nora Smith 12:55 

    That’s great. That’s great. How would you define success personally? 

    Philip Mullen 13:06 

    Well, I think one of the wonderful things about being a serious artist in an art is that we define other artists’ success in terms of the work they make. We don’t define it in terms of how well they do business. Mm, hmm. We all know people who have who are just out of the out of this world, sensational painters, lot of depth to their work, and all who never get any recognition. We also know people who are just hacks who make tons of money because they’re great business people.  

    Nora Smith 13:45 

    Yeah. 

    Philip Mullen 13:47 

    In a way to me, success has to do with putting together a life in which I could do, spend a lot of time, making paintings. Now, there were parts to that that were, you end up doing some other things in order to make that happen. You know, in my case, one of the things I did was I did an academic PhD, which was, boy, not my forte. I was, I mean, that was three years of struggling, but it gave me a wonderful way to get into a really good academic position, which gave me a basis of support and encouraged me to do a lot of painting early on. In those early years, I used to send a lot of shows around the state, including one to Coastal Carolina, probably back in the early 70s. 

    Nora Smith 14:50 

    How lovely! 

    Philip Mullen 14:51 

    It might have been later than that, because actually, one of my students ended up as a theater professor at Coastal. 

    Nora Smith 14:58 

    Really! Are they still here? 

    Philip Mullen 15:00 

    I would Imagine not, and they must be retired by now. I cannot remember her name. 

    Nora Smith 15:09 

    That’s alright. 

    Philip Mullen 15:10 

    She did have it. Have you ever seen the movie sleeping with the enemy? 

    Nora Smith 15:13 

    No, but I’ve heard of it.  

    Philip Mullen 15:16 

    Yeah. Well, it’s almost just a two-person thing, but she’s a big part in that.  

    Nora Smith 15:21 

    Oh, okay, that’s super cool.  

    Philip Mullen 15:23 

    If you ever watch it, she’s a nurse and she was a professor at Coastal.  

    Nora Smith 15:27 

    Oh, that’s super cool. Okay, great to know. I find out so much doing these interviews with people, yeah, so kind of going back to the beginning of starting your career. What was your biggest fear when you decided that you wanted to do something in the arts? 

    Philip Mullen 15:41 

    My biggest fear, well, I certainly had no encouragement. I’m not going to say the words online that my dad said to me when he realized I was actually going into being an artist. It’s not something you want to publish. So that was, that was a big challenge.  

    Nora Smith 15:58 

    Yeah, I’m sure, I’m sure.  

    Philip Mullen 16:00  

    Fortunately, I ran across people who gave me enough encouragement. One thing that helped me a lot was that I graduated in the lower half of my high school class.  I did not want to go to college. I didn’t know what else to do. I got to, you know, I went to the University of Minnesota. I had been such a poor student, I realized I’d never get through college, so I figured, and I was not an art major, so I figured I’d go hang out with my buddy Mike, who was an art major. And I got over there, and I realized that the beginning art classes were not much fun, and the art majors had to take them, but I didn’t. So, I sort of had to talk this professor into letting me start in that upper level, middle level, I should say mid-level painting course. He did not want to do it, and I was kind of persistent. And he finally said, okay, okay, I’ll let you in and under his breath, he said, “In the other guy’s section.  

    And it turned out the other guy was Ed Corbett, who back when abstract expressionism was getting going, and the Museum of Modern Art did a show of 16 of the young abstract expressionists. Ed Corbett was in it.  So, my first teacher was an absolute top run guy, and I thought, and I had had really very little success in life. So, failure was like, was getting pretty, if not comfortable with it, at least used to it. I just think this is wonderful. These guys get to spend tons of time just making paintings. What could be better? You know? Yeah, I still feel that way. That didn’t go away. And that’s amazing. That’s amazing to have it last that long. You know, I mean, and I was, what was 18 years old, then I’m 82 years old. Now, it’s great to have something stick with you that long.  

    Nora Smith 17:55 

    Yeah, that’s amazing.  

    Philip Mullen 17:57 

    It is, it’s, I don’t feel like taking credit for that so much is just being very thankful that I stumbled upon the stuff that made me want to do that, you know. 

    Nora Smith 18:10 

    Right. So, what would you say is the best and worst advice you’ve ever received about going into the field or being in the field, just some things you’ve heard? 

    Philip Mullen 18:22 

    I can’t think of anything, anything that I really think was best or worst advice. I think a person needs to be realistic about what they’re willing to put into it and what they want out of it.  

    Nora Smith 18:35 

    Yeah. 

    Philip Mullen 18:36 

    I had some wonderful art students over the years, some that I’ve you know remained long term friends with. I don’t know you might, you might even see above my head one of my ex-students works if… 

    Nora Smith 18:46 

    Oh, no, I can’t. 

    Philip Mullen 18:49 

    I pride myself in the fact that my student’s work does not look like mine. It, you know, there’s something important to all that. 

    These two guys are guys that are like me. They’re driven to make this stuff. They can’t help themselves. They’re quite different in terms of how they handle their business around it. Now, that’s one way you can go into it. Now, there’s a lot of other art students who really got a lot out of it, but I’d see him afterwards, and it’s, I always hated this one as subjective. “Well, I hate to tell you, I’m really not painting anymore. I’ve gone into I’m doing something else.” Well, the point wasn’t that everybody becomes a painter.  It’s, you know, you took a sociology class, you took a history class, you took a math class. You can become a mathematician. You know.  

    It’s a lot of that’s about rounding it all out for yourself. Actually, in a way, when I get done with it, a class that I invented that I taught, not for the art department, but for the Honors College, is probably the class that I am most proud of having come up with when I was teaching at the university. It was called the artist experience, and only 15 people could be in it, but you’ll see why as I tell you. It was, it’s basically an art history class, I don’t know, an art appreciation class.  However, you never saw a slide in it. If we learned about ceramics, we went to a ceramic studio. Graduate students there taught each person how to how to make, how to throw a pot. Two weeks later, we go back and do a Raku firing. Say, learn it from the inside out.  

    We visited artists studios and went to art shows. Now, what the purpose of this course was, is not to develop artists, but the purpose was to develop people’s appreciation for the Arts. I think art departments should be doing way, way, way more of that. It’s not so great for the egos of the professors who want to teach graduate students and the people who are really going into it, you know, sure, and I value, you know, these guys work, obviously, who were former students, and I value the kind of careers they put together, but I think as a general service.   

    And then what we would do is we would end the course with a three-day trip to New York. And that was when I had, when I had a lot of good New York connections. My former Los Angeles dealer had moved to New York, and she would lead the trip some. She would lead a day of the trip. Sometimes my own gallery would always do a wonderful thing. Oh, we go to, went up to Peter Finley gallery and his son, Josh, who worked there. And he was young, and the students kind of related to him, you know. And he, I remember, one year he’s passing a sculpture around. It’s about two and a half feet high, heavy pieces going around, gets a halfway around the circle, and he announces that it’s a Dega, with a kid holding it. I mean, he’s probably still clenched in this position, you know? And Josh says,”No, no, no, no. We’re not a museum. We’re trying to sell this piece.” People touch it. I mean that opportunity to, like, hold something like that.  

    I remember going to the Museum of Modern Art, and one of the girls in the class who probably hadn’t gotten too far out of South Carolina Previously, she calls me over to Van Gogh’s Starry Night was up, which calls me, and she says, Dr. Mullen, is this the real Starry Night? Yes, this is a real Starry Night, you know. And my gallery would always take them in the back room and pull out all the paintings for them and stuff. So it was, that’s why I called it the artist experience? We didn’t do it by teaching about art. We did it by experiencing. I didn’t have to worry. I didn’t have to worry about grading. I mean, this is honors college class. They’re all “A” students all the time anyhow. And so, what I did, I did the grades were simply based on attendance and a certain amount of projects they did, they would have to do. I mean, I’d have them do. I don’t know, are you a visual artist at all? 

    Nora Smith 23:53 

    No. 

    Philip Mullen 23:55 

    Okay, well, I had them do an exercise called negative shape drawing.  

    Nora Smith 23:58 

    I think I know what you’re talking about. 

    Philip Mullen 24:00 

    Okay, it’s sort of a, it’s a beginning, it’s a beginning drawing thing. But they would not, and we, you know, we’d spend not the time that an art major would spend on it but would spend a period on that. But they would never grade it on the quality of the work because that’s not the point. The point was to get to the head of it. And, I mean, that is where I would really like to see training in, not just in visual arts, but in the arts in general. Because being an artist does what we imagine, you just make this art and people buy it. That’s like, it’s like being an athlete who plays for; it’s a pretty small percentage of folks that that works out for. And the commitment is just, it’s more than most people really want to make to it and more than we. It makes sense for most people to make, 

    Nora Smith 25:03 

    Yeah. 

    Philip Mullen 25:03 

    And interestingly enough, of any classes I ever took taught, I still, I mean, here I am, 25 years away from having retired to university, and within the last year, I’ve still gotten some correspondence from some of the people who took that course. I mean, it was, you know, it was something that, it’s something that offers a kind of art, art can enrich, enrich everybody’s life. 

    Nora Smith 25:34 

    I agree. I would take that class. I would take that class. 

    Philip Mullen 25:38 

    Oh, whenever they opened it up. It started with seniors, you know, I mean it, it was filled the first day it was opened up.  

    Nora Smith 25:47 

    That sounds awesome, yeah. 

    Philip Mullen 25:51 

    And it was a very simple idea of art appreciation. But whoever got interested in art by looking at slides, I don’t know, you know, whoever got interested in music by memorizing composers? 

    Nora Smith 26:06 

    That’s such a great idea for a class. And I can imagine how amazing that was, teaching that, and the students experiencing that, such a great take on it, because now it seems so distant when you’re looking at slides of how to do things, instead of experiencing it like it completely distances it from you. And it’s, it feels impossible, almost in a way. Yes, yeah, that’s so cool. I love that.  

    Philip Mullen 26:34 

    What is the area that you’re studying in?  

    Nora Smith 26:37 

    I’m in English, in English. So, everything you’re saying, I’m like, it’s going to be my writing, because I would like to be a writer, and so I totally understand the artist. The whole it’s, yeah. 

    Philip Mullen 26:52 

    Every Wednesday, including today, almost every Wednesday, I have lunch with a writing friend of mine. And one of the things that I like about talking with him is it’s so nice to talk across disciplines, because you tend to talk about the bigger picture, as opposed if you talk to people in your own discipline, it can kind of get into, you know, how do you compose this sentence? How do you make this color transition and things like that? And we find that there are so many things about how we work that crossover. 

    Nora Smith 27:44 

    Yes, exactly. That’s so cool. Yeah, everything you were saying, I’m like, yeah, makes complete sense, even to me. So, yeah. So, I’ll keep you updated. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. If you have any questions, just send me an email, send me a text, but I will keep you updated.  

    Philip Mullen 28:06 

    Good. Well, it’s nice to talk to you, Nora.  

  • Desiree Williams

    Desiree Williams

    “I define success by being able to wake up and actually see my work impacting the lives of others.” 

    Desiree Williams is a licensed esthetician and educator. Desiree is turning creative passion into community impact, one lash, lesson, and life at a time. 

    Interview

    Transcript

    Emma Plutnicki  00:03 

    Okay, so to start, what do you do for work and where are you currently working from? 

    Desiree Williams  00:08 

    Well, my name is Desiree Williams. I am a licensed esthetician and a licensed esthetics instructor. I do have a suite that I work from, and I perform master extension applications as well as teaching it. 

    Emma Plutnicki  00:22 

    Amazing. And how long have you been doing that? 

    Desiree Williams  00:25 

    It’s been going on for six years. 

    Emma Plutnicki  00:30 

    Okay, a good amount of time. So, what is a typical day? Look like for you? 

    Desiree Williams  00:36 

    A typical day for me kind of starts like today. Wake up, do all my good, do all the things I need to do, and then run and go see clients. So, I like to get my clients out of the way at the beginning of the day, so in the evening I can do all of my marketing, all of my mentee calls. I teach a lot on Tiktok. So, I do free lash artist classes on Tiktok every day at 9pm so that’s basically what my day looks like. I start immediately getting into it after I do my gratitude and drink my tea and do everything that I need to do. 

    Emma Plutnicki  01:14 

    Yeah, amazing. And so how did you gain the skills to be successful in your career? I would 

    Desiree Williams  01:20 

    Say networking as well as reading. One thing that I learned is that if you want information out there it is always in a book, it’s somewhere in a book. I don’t even like Google anymore. I love to find a good book that talks about whatever topic I want to learn. So, I also watch a lot of like Alex hermosi, Grant Cardone, those guys to help me scale and do things like that. So, I feel like just networking and being a student forever has assisted me in getting where I am today. 

    Emma Plutnicki  01:50 

    Yeah, for sure. And did you have any fears when you were going into this career? 

    Desiree Williams  01:54 

    Oh, yes, plenty. I’m the first business owner in my family. So, it was a learning curve. I don’t even know where to start with my fears. I always was like, oh, well, how am I going to do this to get the inventory or the main thing was capital. So, a lot of times when you don’t have previous experience in business, it’s hard to get capital, especially if you’re not educated on things like the SBA and stuff like that. So, getting started finding a space to work was, you know, kind of hard as well. I started from my home and grew my business and was able to leave my home. So, there were a lot of fears, but thankfully, with faith, I overcame all of that. 

    Emma Plutnicki  02:35 

    Yeah, and did you have anybody along the way giving you any advice, any mentors or family members? Do you remember any of the best or worst pieces of advice that you were given? 

    Desiree Williams  02:44 

    I’m not gonna lie, like a couple weeks ago, my husband gave me the best pep talk ever, because I was like, I’m just gonna go get me a job. I’m not gonna have to worry about anything. I don’t have to follow up behind people. Just go get a job. So, I would definitely say my husband, he very, very much inspires me, even though, you know, it’s like, oh, it’s your husband. He should do that. No, some days he’s not going with my shenanigans, and other days he is. So, he was a big integral part of growing the business and doing things or learning how to do things the right way. So, some of the best advice I’ve gotten from him was, just do it. Stop overthinking it, just do it. And some of the worst advice I’ve ever gotten was not from him, but just from in general, like listening to social media. Like on social media, people tell you do ABC, you do it, and you don’t get the results that they promised. So, I learned not to use social media as a guy. But as far as the inspiration goes. 

    Emma Plutnicki  03:42 

    Yeah, that’s a good point. And have you been able to maintain a healthy work life balance with your work? Is it hard to kind of separate your personal life from your professional life 

    Desiree Williams  03:54 

    In the past? Yes, I was at the point where my business was my personality. So, like every time someone sings seeing me, they’ll be like, oh, its flash girl dance, you know? So, over the years, I was actually diagnosed with lupus at the height of my career. So that goes to show that when you first start in your business, create systems that are going to help your business continue to do what it needs to do, even if you’re not behind the chair or you can’t work. So now, after that diagnosis, I have a healthy work life balance. But before I didn’t, I woke up immediately checking emails, immediately doing this, but putting implement in business hours has been a great help to me, and now I feel like once I follow my business hours, the balance is it’s not even balanced. It’s harmony for me, yeah, 

    Emma Plutnicki  04:40 

    Perfect. And with a career like this, I’m sure it can be hard to kind of define what success looks like. So, what does success look like for you? Is it a positive review? Is it financial based? How do you define success in your professional career? 

    Desiree Williams  04:58 

    Oh, that’s a good one. I. I define success by being able to wake up and actually see my work impacting the lives of others. A lot of times, like in the career that I’m doing as an esthetician, a lot of people go to school, and they get done with school, and they never take their boards, or they learn lash extensions, and they never actually start the business or take clients. So, with me being able to teach over 1500 students, I’ve learned that my success is in helping people change their lives in a real, true way, where you know they’re not worried about what’s happening next, they actually have a plan, a strategy, to get things done. So, I define my success by how many lives I can positively impact, which is, which has been a lot. It’s kind of overwhelming once you think about it, but just being myself and letting them know, like, hey, if I can do it, you can do it too. My success comes from that. Yeah, 

    Emma Plutnicki  05:53 

    I love that. And has there been one specific moment that you can remember throughout your career that kind of stands out as having a significant impact on you, whether that’s your greatest success or just something that was kind of the pinnacle of your creativity. 

    Desiree Williams  06:08 

    I would say, honestly, my loop is diagnosis. Then the reason I say that is because I had to quickly pivot into not being behind the chair as much to oh my goodness, my hands are numb today. I can’t work today. What? What else can I do to help impact others? That moment where it’s like, I don’t I realize that I don’t physically have to be touching people to impact them. That was very pivotal for me, because social media is huge. You can. You could be in China right now. We’ll be talking like you get what I’m saying. So, um, just understanding that, boom, this is, I don’t know, it’s a lot, it’s a lot, it’s it’s a lot. And I would say, just, excuse me, I’m so sorry. No, you’re so good. Questions over here, like, I can think of multiple moments that’s great talking. I was thinking of another moment like, I was just like, whoa. You don’t realize how much you’re pouring into something till you step back and look at the bigger picture. So just the bigger picture, that’s really it? 

    Emma Plutnicki  07:17 

    Yeah, no, for sure, and working in South Carolina has that had any specific impact on you the state as a whole? Have you worked in other places, and does South Carolina specifically have any impact on your work? 

    Desiree Williams  07:30 

    Oh, very much. So I’m completing a course with Columbia’s business office. It’s called The Next Level micro entrepreneur, and I’ve never seen something like that in any other state, like just researching like, oh, I want to leave South Carolina. Where am I going to move to? What type of business support would I have? One thing that I will say about South Carolina in whole, is that our bit the business realm of it, those who are in those higher seats, they do want to see smaller micro businesses succeed. And today is, well, tomorrow will be week nine of the course. And I always tell anybody, if you want to run a business, definitely take this course, because it tells you, step by step on how to run your business and what to do, how to find loans with the SBA.  This all the resources you think we didn’t have here in South Carolina that we do have, the class is only like $50 so I was just like, whoa, this information. It needs to be more. So South Carolina has definitely impacted my business like that, because it shows me that I have the resources here to do better than do the things that I want to do to impact the community. I don’t really I only work in Columbia, but I do have a lot of people that travel from Charleston. I had a young lady travel from North South Carolina, and I have no idea. I was like, I have no idea where that’s at. But just being born and raised here, it was, it’s great to have run a business here and see how things are changing. And it’s a really great straight state, especially if you want to run a business. So, yeah, I love my city. 

    Emma Plutnicki  09:02 

    Yeah, no, amazing. And how is the local working professional community? Is there a lot of support? Is, are there any, like, weekly meetings you go to? Or what kind of support do you receive within South Carolina, 

    Desiree Williams  09:16 

    It’s so many to name. They have different things, like, I’ll go on like Facebook and see what they have for meetups, like networking mixers and things like that. I don’t do anything weekly as far as networking. The last 10 weeks, I have been doing that class with the Columbia Business Office, and then just the esthetics community here is very loving, very huge. You know, everyone wants to see each other win, so I love that aspect of running my business here as well. 

    Emma Plutnicki  09:48 

    Yeah, amazing. And just as we wrap up, is there anything else that you’d like to add about your job, your career, any advice or anything like that? I’ll 

    Desiree Williams  09:59 

    Give some advice. If you are creative, because I’m definitely a creative I love with last extension, application, and just being an esthetician, doing application and things like that, you have to have that type of creativity so each person can have like, their signature look. So if you are creative, I just recommend to stick to it. Don’t try to see, do what other people are doing, do what works for you and your business will flourish. 

    Emma Plutnicki  10:25 

    Yeah, I love that. Well. Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I know everything that you said will definitely help anybody looking to pursue a similar career. So really appreciate it. 

    Desiree Williams  10:35 

    Yes, ma’am.