“The more you push yourself out of your comfort zone and out of the box you’re used to, the more confident you get.”
Tori Hord is an Associate Professor of Graphic Design at Methodist University in Fayetteville, N.C. She grew up in Loris, S.C., and earned her bachelors in graphic design at Coastal Carolina University. She continued her graphic design with a Master of Graphic Design M.G.D. at North Carolina State University.
Interview
Transcript
Tori Hord
My name is Tori Hord. I am from Loris, South Carolina, so very close to Coastal [Carolina University], like 30-ish minutes. And I currently teach graphic design at Methodist University in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
Emma Plutnicki
So how long have you been working there?
Tori Hord
Seven years.
Emma Plutnicki
Wow. Amazing. And your official job title, would that just be graphic design teacher?
Tori Hord
Associate Professor of Graphic Design.
Emma Plutnicki
Amazing. So how did you get into that? How did you find that job? And how did you just end up in that field overall?
Tori Hord
That’s an interesting, so I started when I started Coastal. I went to undergrad there, I started as a biology major. About a semester or two semesters in, I decided to switch my major to graphic design without telling any of my family and made them all have a small heart attack when they found out.
Emma Plutnicki
Oh my gosh.
Tori Hord
But it’s always something that I’ve loved. So it was a really good change for me. And from there, I just, I was just very passionate about it. And when I graduated, I got a job in the field. And I worked there for a couple years and then decided that I wanted to pursue my masters in graphic design. So I went and got a masters in graphic design from NC State. And then when I graduated from NC State, there were, y’know, lots of applying to jobs, and I landed here in Fayetteville at Methodist University.
Emma Plutnicki
Amazing. So what made you switch from biology to graphic arts? Was it more hating biology? Or was it more a passion for graphic arts?
Tori Hord
It was more passion for sure. Always loved it growing up, but just never considered or thought of it as a turning something I loved into the career. And once I figured out that I could do that, I was like, “Absolutely. Let’s do this.”
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. More fun, probably. So can you walk us through a typical work day? Like, what’s expected of you, what your work process looks like, what kind of things you work on?
Tori Hord
Yes, absolutely. So for me, I think being, teaching design and being a professor, you kind of get the best of both worlds. So my initial attraction to teaching it, you know, other than just loving the subject and wanting to share more was that it has a great schedule. You have time for, you know, it’s a great work life balance for the most part. And that also gives you lots of time to continue to work in the field, which I was adamant about not stopping, I didn’t want to stop my design career to teach, I wanted something that would allow me to do both. And that’s what the shop does, which I love it, you get a great schedule, you get a, you know, it’s a steady, it’s not like you’re freelancing all the time, it’s a steady income. Day to day, it depends on what classes I have offered, but I teach anywhere from two to three, like studio length classes a day. So I’m in the art building, in the studio, working with students. And then when I’m not teaching I’m in my office, you know, doing housekeeping things and preparing and also working on my own work.
Tori Hord
Amazing. So the classes that you teach, are those different levels of graphic designer, or do they have specialties within them?
Tori Hord
Yes, I teach at all levels. So I teach the freshmen their first semester, on up to the seniors in their last semester. And everything in between. So I see a little bit of all of them all the time.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that’s great. So can you describe a defining moment in your, like, creative journey so far? So maybe it’s a specific project that really showcased your creativity or had a significant impact on you?
Tori Hord
The one, this is ironic, but the one that really comes to mind as being most memorable for me was actually at Coastal at the Athenaeum Press.
Emma Plutnicki
Oh, really?
Tori Hord
Yes, we worked on the Gullah Geechee project. And there was, we traveled out to these different places and took photographs and did interviews and then the project itself won an Addy Award at the end. So it was kind of like a, a quintessential moment for me. I was like, “this is actually going to work. This is neat. We’re getting recognition for work that me and my friends have, you know, kind of poured our hearts into.” So that was a big moment for me.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, I’ve seen that work. It was great. So I’m sure that was a really fun time to work on. So do you think this career path is challenging? What challenges have you faced and how have you been able to kind of overcome those challenges? Because being in a creative career as a whole is pretty challenging, but how have you kind of worked through this?
Tori Hord
It is, I would say it was challenging. And it’s um, it’s like with anything you do, the more you do it, the more you push yourself out of your comfort zone and out of the box that you’re used to, the more confident you get in it. I do remember my first year teaching anything, I was terrified, right? I’m standing up in front of this group of people. And you’re suddenly faced with like, “I know nothing,” right? “I am not qualified to do this, I should not be here. Why did these people give me a job.” But the more you do it, you realize, “okay, I’m equipped, I have the knowledge, I’ve done the education, I have a passion for it.” So for me, it really was just making sure I was getting out of my comfort zone, and putting in the effort… and it was fantastic. But the more I was in those classrooms with the students and got to know them, and saw their excitement for it, everything just came together.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that’s amazing. So within your specific field, can you think of any skills that you possess that helped you land that role, or any skills that you think an applicant should have to increase their chances of getting that role? I know, like you’re in teaching, so is there any like connection with teaching that you had to help you or was your skill in graphic design, like the driving force to lead you to teaching, or just in general, like any skills that helped you?
Tori Hord
Obviously, to be able to teach art or graphic design or anything, you have to have a certain level of knowledge, but especially for art design, you also have to have a certain level of skill, right, you have to be able to get to that point. So a portfolio is still a big part of this job, even though it’s not a, the focus is not necessarily all design, you know, work all the time, you still have to have a great portfolio, you still have to make sure that you’re paying attention to the detail, because it matters when getting these roles. And I think the other part of it is, is communication, being able to talk about what you want from that job, but also be able to talk about your work in ways that ties it in to people that might not necessarily be in your field. Which is a great skill for designers have anyway, because there’s lots of contact with people outside of the art world. So being able to communicate those ideas and your thoughts and passions to those people is really important, too.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. It’s a very important skill. And so, you studied in South Carolina, and now working in North Carolina. Are there any like organizations or programs or events that you recommend for people who are trying to get into that field? Is there any like conferences you went to that helped you network to figure out, like, gain more connections within the creative world or anything like that in the area?
Tori Hord
Yeah, I’m a big supporter of AIGA [the Professional Association for Design] I’ve been a member of AIGA since I was an undergrad, and continued that. But more so than that, I found a lot of helpful was these kind of like open houses for different schools. So when I was pursuing my master’s or thinking about going to get my graduate degree, I looked into these different kind of open houses, kind of meet and greets. And I met a lot of really great people and lots of great networking opportunities just from doing that. And that had no ties to it. You didn’t have to, no commitments, you’re just kind of going and exploring and learning about what your options are.
Emma Plutnicki
That makes sense. So AIGA, you said?
Tori Hord
Yes.
Emma Plutnicki
What does that stand for, do you know?
Tori Hord
American Institute of Graphic Arts.
Emma Plutnicki
Okay, awesome. I’m sure a lot of people know that. I didn’t know. That’s amazing.
Tori Hord
The chapter here is in Raleigh, the closest one. But a lot of universities have like local student chapters. I know Coastal used to have one, whenever I was there. And we have one here. It’s just a great opportunity for professionals and students to kind of connect.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that’s amazing. So great. Thanks for saying all this. This is such an interesting field. I’m sure you have fun with it every day. But just as we wrap up, do you have any advice for current college students or just people who are looking to get into these fields in creative professions?
Tori Hord
Follow what you’re passionate in. That was a big thing for me. So I went along with, like I said, the biology doing what I thought I was supposed to do, and what, you know, everyone was like, “Oh, you’d be great, at you know, XYZ, you’d be a great doctor, you’d be great at this.” And in the back of my mind, there was always something like, “Maybe but I don’t know that I want it.” And just listening to that little voice, and you know, going after what you do want, regardless of what other people might think which, I mean is, you know, life anyway right?
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. No, that’s great advice. I definitely need to listen to that too.
“My family is from Nichols, South Carolina, one of the areas that went through the 1,000-year flood in 2016, and my family lost everything. Two years later, it happened again. It was most devastating. So I thought, ‘What can I do?’ I still wanted to be creative, but I wanted to work in the community. Clemson had just started a Resilient Urban Design degree. I quit all my jobs – almost 20 years in the graphic design industry — and went back to college.”
My name is Tonya Gore. I am born and raised Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
Sara Sobota
Okay, great. And who do you work for? And from where?
Tonya Gore
I’ve worked for Myrtle Beach downtown Alliance and is located downtown Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
Sara Sobota
Okay, and how long have you been working there? And what’s your official job title?
Tonya Gore
Almost two years. And my official job title is Director of Enhancement and Design.
Sara Sobota
Okay. How did you end up in this field? And how did you hear about it? Long story I guess.
Tonya Gore
it’s a long story because my creative field, creative career actually, started after I left coastal.[Coastal Carolina University]. And I did an internship, um, I don’t know if you knew this, Sara, but my degree is actually in fine art.
Sara Sobota
Oh, I didn’t know that.
Tonya Gore
So I went to Costal, graduated in 2000, in fine art. And the program just sort of introduced graphic design to the program, they had one computer lab, and Max just started. And so it was suggested that we go and get to internships if we want to make a career out of graphics. So I found the internship with a local, local small advertising agency working on the beach ball class.
Sara Sobota
I did not know any of that, that’s awesome.
Tonya Gore
That’s so mild in the fine artists, I just haven’t done a lot of fine art. So a lot of my background that I have done, or fine art pieces with some watercolor and some oils. So their position all throughout my family’s houses. So I worked I at the fish that did an internship, I finished that she hired me full time. I stayed there for a few years. So my full career for almost 20 years was with graphic design. And I simultaneously I worked as a adjunct in digital arts at Horry Georgetown.
Sara Sobota
Oh, I didn’t know that either.
Tonya Gore
I did that for almost 10 years, like eight years to be exact. And I also worked in the community a lot. So I wanted to find a career that can work because I’ve always wanted to stay creative. I’ve always said I would never get out of a creative field. I was wanting to do something that had some creativity with it. So I did soul searching, I wanted to do something with the community that combined my creative field as well. And I found the program and went back to school, to Clemson in the master’s program for urban design degree.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
So it’s a resilient Urban Design degree because my family, my family’s from Nichols, my mom’s family from Nichols, South Carolina. And a few years ago, Nichols was one of the areas that went through the 100-year flood. And my family lost everything. And then two years later, the same thing happened. I had an eighty- something-year-old aunt that lost everything that couldn’t rebuild. She was too old, she, you know, and it was the most devastating thing to me. So I said, Well, let me see what can I do, still wanting to be creative, but also wanted to go back into the community as well. So I found what happened. So Clemson just started a program called Resilient Urban Resilience and Urban Design that focus on being resilient communities. And I did that I quit all my jobs, almost 20 years.
Sara Sobota
Wow.
Tonya Gore
And I went back to college to do this, again, still wanting to stay creative, because I knew I could not do anything that’s not creative, because that will drive me crazy. And I did that. finish that up. It was a year program accelerate program for one year. And I found my first job designing streets urban design or for engineering firm.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
So while I was there, I used to attend an institute they had every once a month, they had a coffee with ULI [Urban Land Institute], and they did speakers, and the President of the ULI was Amy Barrett.
Sara Sobota
Okay,so I’m sorry. Well, ULI is urban…
Tonya Gore
Urban Land Institute.
Sara Sobota
Land Institute, okay.
Tonya Gore
Urban Land Institute.
Sara Sobota
And that was here, or was that in Clemson?
Tonya Gore
It was in Charleston when I was in school.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
It was in Charleston and Amy was the, Amy was the president. So one of my classmates texts, and she texts all of us and let us know that Amy took a job with Myrtle Beach, downtown Lyons. And she knew I was local. She know I have my creative career. And she also knew I had my design background. So she offered me a job here to combine them all. So that’s how I get with the title and with this job is a long circle, but it’s full circle,
Sara Sobota
Wow, and so many accomplishments along the way, and so many ways that you Yeah, that’s amazing. Now, the resiliency in urban design, I thought you said it was at Clemson but it was at it was Clemson but it was in Charleston?
Tonya Gore
Charleston, Clemson have a study of full remotes, what do you call it, a remote branch or class and most branch. It’s on East East Bay Street, and it’s at the cigar factory. The full Second floor to Cigar Factory is three different programs as architecture, they have a choice to go to Charleston or go to Italy, the historical preservation. They are there for two years and the Urban Design Program share the second floor at the cigar factory floor Clemson. Okay. And it’s a one year program. So that’s, that’s how I ended up in jobs.
Sara Sobota
That’s amazing. Okay, great. The next question is, what background did you have that helped you land that role? I think you kind of walked through that a little bit, right? Yeah. Motivation and your background? Can you walk us through a typical work day? If there is one?
Tonya Gore
Mmm, okay, we sit all over the place with this because right now, if I had my interns on a Monday, my interns come in, okay, it’s three interns, digital arts, and we’re, we’re my project is the brand in the wayfinding element for downtown. Okay, so we start at nine, I meet with them, we go over their previous week work to make sure they’re on the path of what I’m asking them to do.
Sara Sobota
Yeah.
Tonya Gore
And that’s until nine to ten. 10 o’clock, we have staff, 10 to 11:30. Most of the time, our staff through our weekly projects, we have one on at about 11:30, then I go make sure the interns, okay, and I start, you know, what’s the easiest first, sorry, because I do plan events as well. So right now we’re planning all of our events for Nights of Nance. So I had to get all the bands lined up for there. And then when I finished that, then I’ll go back to my pendant and wayfinding and make sure that I give them something to do, or make sure all my input meeting and they need Pantone colors, and making sure their Pantone colors is exactly correct what they need to use it. When they send in the vows. I double check and make sure all their files, because I work in Adobe programs, make sure their files is situated. Then,once I finish that, then I’ll go check and see if any of the businesses, like a couple of businesses have an event this weekend. There’s a Pride event this weekend. I’m making sure he’s okay. He has all of his elements to make sure. Then once I finished that. Now, I’m working on a schedule because we’re going to activate the space in the pocket park. So I want to make sure you know we have to have a schedule for the whole year, in trying to come up with ideas for the whole year. So today, I was researching other people’s websites to see some ideas. So so far, we went to yoga went to a farmers market. One, trying to get Jason about our bench, but it’s not. We wanted it with Bistro lights, so, two functions. So and now today, we had to walk from downtown.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
So, that usually stops around 5:00, 5:30. But I normally do not finish all my lifts throughout the day. As long as I’m finished, because I go back and forth doing multiple things and like that.
Sara Sobota
Yeah. Well, let’s talk. Big picture of your job. You are ah, I mean you are in a way building. You’re building a city. I mean, you’re, you’re crafting. It’s kind of an upgrade, but not really. I mean, you’re kind of building from the ground up. Right?
Tonya Gore
Right, right, right. I, I call it my, my version of it, is an empty canvas.
Sara Sobota
Okay, yeah.
Tonya Gore
That’s what I my, my when I first started out, so we had an empty canvas to play with. Just, I don’t because I’m such a love of historical buildings. I don’t like tearing down I like building on what you have already.
Sara Sobota
Tell me, just in your words, although I know the mission statement of MBDA what is it? What is it doing?
Tonya Gore
From my, my perspective or just…
Sara Sobota
The whole organization, the whole organization.
Tonya Gore
We’re pretty much a place management organization.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
So, our task is to help with redevelopment, partnering with the city of Myrtle Beach redevelopment, activate spaces, bring people downtown, host events, sponsoring events, make sure people are coming downtown, and to help it revitalize, to make it a walkable community for all.
Sara Sobota
Okay, okay, awesome. Can you describe a defining moment in your creative journey? It could be a project that made an impact on you or something you produced? You know, in my opinion, it could even be a decision you made but a defining moment in your creative journey.
Tonya Gore
The entire time?
Sara Sobota
You’re defining yourself.
Tonya Gore
I think my defining moment is when I,when I was talking about with my family, the impact and the impact that had on my family and my community because of Vietnam. I was born and raised here, let me think of a specific one outside of the flood. I think it was 2017, something like that. Yeah, I think that’s what was close to the research on that with that.
Sara Sobota
Was it Mathew?
Tonya Gore
I’m not sure, probably, it was it was two back to back.
Sara Sobota
Yep, yep.
Tonya Gore
Matthew, maybe Floyd, Matthew, maybe Floyd, back to back. It’s two years apart.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
Let me think, what was defining moment in my career? That made me think about my career in a different way? or just…
Sara Sobota
Or that when you, when you produced it, you went, wow, look at what I can do.
Tonya Gore
Let me think. My last job, I did a lot of mentoring for cities.
Sara Sobota
Okay.
Tonya Gore
For a street, that, when its revitalized, the street with it was more of street design, not buildings. So to add in bike lanes, to add in different type of parking, some medians, some roundabouts, and you would take a picture of the street the way it is. And then I would add all the elements to the street, and sometimes even now when I look back, I’m like, Whoa, wow. Like, who did this? I’m amazed myself with that, because I took something that didn’t look like anything. And I produce something that look, you know, a rendering that people can associate with how they want the community to vote. So I hope to take that skill, and pass it on to what I’m doing now. Where I’m working with that.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And when you know, with your job, you can go see what you’ve done. I mean, it’s there people use it. Oh, that’s amazing.
Tonya Gore
Yeah, yeah.
Sara Sobota
Was it challenging for you to find this career path? Or what are some challenges that you faced, or even every day, your challenges now, whatever.
Tonya Gore
What challenge, what made me, stop 20 years of graphic design that, when I was teaching, I saw a lot of talented young artists coming through, and I realized that they also their, the market value for them was increase. Even though I had more experience, I did not keep up with my, my skill, my craft. Meaning they knew how to write programs, they kept up with developing websites. And I did not keep up on that element. So that was a, that was real challenging to me. Because I felt like, Okay, if I want to be more marketable, the kids coming out of high school know a little bit more than I do right now. So, I need to think about,that was the hardest challenge about my career, that I’ve still find, I don’t find it as much challenging now, as I did then. So that was another reason why I, I felt like I needed to gain more just saying, and, again, every time I always says I’m always I’m utilizing this to go back into my community as well.
Sara Sobota
Yeah.
Tonya Gore
So, so that was a challenge, that was like a eye-opening experience for me because, younger generation is so much more technically advanced than I was.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, yep. I think a lot of people would agree with that. Can you recommend any specific skills that an aspiring applicant should have to increase their chances of landing a role in your field? Specific skills.
Tonya Gore
Specific skill in my career, when I’m doing now. It helps that I have the graphic skill, but I think my knowledge base might be a little bit more valuable, then my….. the skill is valuable but, it also could be taught. Knowledge with my experience over the years cannot be taught. So I think that when you enter in a career value those around you will have the experience.
Sara Sobota
That’s smart. That’s, yeah, absolutely true. Yeah. Okay. Great. Are there any local organizations programs or events that you recommend for aspiring creatives?
Tonya Gore
Art is so subjective when it comes to creating, so I don’t think that there’s any kind of like event or any kind of like program that,that can teach you that because, I don’t feel like art can be bad, because it’s subjective, but I would I would if I had to think of a skill that you would learn, I think technology is changing so much that it it will be in your best interests if you took some classes to enhance your skill level.
Tonya Gore
Rather it be the Adobe programs, or if you want it to because this career, finding that,you know, when I was doing my, not graphics,but doing my urban design portion, my graphics laid so heavily, but I also gained knowledge in more skills as well like architectural skills far as AutoCAD, 3d programs. So I would think that if you had to learn, I would brush up on this skill level when it comes to Technology and take as many classes, or go to any seminars or any type of podcast that you can, to brush up on that and stay up to date with it. I never let my; even though I don’t techniacaly, I’m not techniacaly an graphic designer anymore. I always keep my skills up to date. I’ve never gotten rid of my programs. I always kept my programs always stay in the programs. I made sure I brought laptops that I could use program because, I’m from the old school generation but my my father taught me if you always have a skill, you’ll always have a job. So I kept my skills, always kept my skills up.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, and that’s, that’s important and hard right now, I think. Okay, do you have advice for current college students or pre professional young adults who are pursuing a career in the creative world?
Tonya Gore
You don’t know everything? Excellent. Just because you have an education doesn’t mean you know everything. You do not know everything. Sometimes,people who don’t hold a career, the degree have more knowledge than you do. Listen, willing to learn and be patient. It will come.
“Try to get as many different kinds of experiences as possible. I think a wealth of experiences is really valuable.”
Theresa Marchi was the Director of Strategic Marketing at the charity United Way of Greenville County. She takes a holistic approach to marketing, working to engage the community in different ways.
Interview
Transcript
Theresa Marchi My name is Theresa Marchi, originally from Connecticut.
Emma Plutnicki Perfect. And can you tell us what you do for work, and where you’re currently working from?
Theresa Marchi Yeah, I am the Director of Strategic Marketing here at United Way of Greenville County. So located in the upstate of South Carolina, Greenville.
Emma Plutnicki Perfect! How long have you been working there?
Theresa Marchi Yeah. I’ve been here two years.
Emma Plutnicki Okay. And your official job title is…
Theresa Marchi Director of Strategic Marketing.
Emma Plutnicki Perfect. Well, how did you end up in the job that you have today?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, so I got my degree from Coastal [Carolina University] in graphic design, in 2017. And then from there, I had been working at an ad agency in Myrtle Beach, which was a fantastic opportunity. But at the time, my dream job was to create college athletic spaces. And there was a company in Greenville, South Carolina that was doing that, and I was just obsessed. And so at the time, that was my dream job. And I wanted to go into that field, because it kind of blew my mind that there are designers that design beyond this flat surface of logos and videography and pieces like that, elements of advertising like that. And they really are almost like engineers and architects where they design a whole facility, and they help tell a brand’s story, an athletic’s story about what makes their space special, and why athletes should be part of their program and the history and the legacy that they get to be a part of. And so that was really intriguing to me, that kind of storytelling.
Theresa Marchi
And I had moved up to Greenville to accept a role there as a designer and learned a lot. What helped me at the time was, the Athenaeum Press program at Coastal Carolina had, I had been part of helping develop a museum exhibit. And so this company in Greenville, they’re called Jack Porter, they saw that on my resume, and they were like, “you already have, like some of these skills that a lot of students don’t.” So that really helped me start thinking about design differently and storytelling, a lot different than, I think, a lot of other designers at the time. And from there, I just got really interested in marketing as a whole, how we’re telling stories and this holistic piece of the journey that people learn about a brand and get engaged in it. And so I had an opportunity to work at United Way of Greenville County, I started as a graphic designer here, and just asked a lot of questions, and then kind of seeing that potential and that, like, quality in me, and poking holes in things and trying to understand and build something really meaningful and intentional with our community, they asked me to take this role, which is, takes a holistic approach to that to our marketing efforts. And we just figure out how to engage the community in different ways. So kind of how I got to this role.
Emma Plutnicki
Nice, amazing. So nowadays, what do your day to days look like? What are you responsible for? And what are you working on?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, so, day to day looks a lot different than it did when I first started. So as a designer, I used to be in the art aspect of things and making sure that the art pieces kind of resonate and tell the story that way. And now my role is a lot more different, and it’s a lot more planning, and it’s fighting for the whole year of all of these touchpoints that we’re going to have with community members, special segments, doing a lot of data interpretation. So collecting all the data, what’s reaching our donors, what’s, what’s not, what’s reaching our community, what’s not. Figuring out what’s working, a lot of A/B testing, and just trying to figure out the best messaging positioning for different groups to try to engage them in the work. And a lot of the times we see that there’s a very high alignment that community members have with our work, they just don’t know it, they just don’t know we do. And so part of my role is really figuring out what’s the best avenue to reach them, and to get them plugged into our work.
Emma Plutnicki
Nice, that’s awesome. So you mentioned the project at the Atheneum Press. And is there any other like defining moment in your journey so far, whether it’s at your job now, or just a project that you’ve worked on, that kind of sticks with you as something like meaningful to you?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, I think there are a lot. I work in a nonprofit space. And so, truly, what’s been special is seeing pieces come to life and see– it sounds cheesy, but the lives that are being changed because of it. So one of the projects that we have here at United Way is this event called School Tools. And it’s hundreds of people lined up starting at four in the morning, and they will line up and get a backpack full of school supplies. And it’s not just school supplies that are just from all over the place. We work with Greenville County schools to make sure that these backpacks are full of items that the students are actually going to need. They’re organized by elementary school, high school, middle school and families who come and get backpacks they need. And I think you know, there are a lot of really great pieces of my job, but the moments where I get to go to School Tools and see the work really play out and people that have been waiting there since 4am to get a backpack and the lives that are changed and the other resources that they’re connected to, that has been really special and really fulfilling in my work. Because when I was growing up and realizing I sucked at biology, I just was like, “What am I going to do with my life? I want to make something matter in our community, in this world, I want to have a purpose. And I’m good at art. And so, how does that translate into the work?” And I think I’ve really found that here working in the nonprofit space and using the skills that I do have to help change lives. So that’s been really special to me.
Emma Plutnicki
Amazing. So working in the nonprofit, is it challenging? Like, what challenges do you face that you might not see in other areas?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, I think what’s so challenging being in marketing in a nonprofit space, compared to the for-profit, is usually there’s a product in the for-profit. You are selling, you know, a better experience or something. And in the nonprofit space, what we’re selling is not tangible. So it’s really laying into the storytelling, the impact, the strategy of how we’re doing this work that is most important in this space. Whereas with the for-profit side, you can use a lot of different marketing tactics to sell a product, and its physical, and someone’s going to get it. And then the other side of it in the nonprofit space is, it’s just a lot more complex, and trying to find these allies and cheerleaders for your work, and really figure out how to engage them, it just really feels like a completely different ballgame. You use different kinds of tools. Some things are very similar from a marketing perspective, but I think it’s, to me a lot more challenging, in a good way.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that makes sense. So you also mentioned that one reason that kind of helped you in the job process was having that real world experience. Are there any other skills that an applicant should have that would increase their chances of getting a job in a field similar to yours?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, I think, you know, in the marketing field, one of the skills, traits, that I find most valuable, especially where I’m at in my career is curiosity. And it sounds, I think, overused, but truly, when you’re in marketing, I really feel that everything needs to have a reason, especially in the nonprofit space, when you’re having to utilize resources very intentionally, I think curiosity, trying to understand why we’re doing these things that we’re doing, how is it going to further the mission, what is that experience that people are going to get when they interact with our brand, with our work? That is something that is really hard to find in others, in candidates? And if you really want to be a standout, for me, it’s it’s that attitude, that, you know, always striving for more. Asking questions. And I think as you get into adulthood, and the space is is different from college, it’s not as like, safe, still keeping curious. And asking the questions and trying to make the work better, is really something that I second guessed a lot early in my career that I just at this point, I just am who I am. I’m going to ask the questions. And that’s how I think you can make the most difference in your your work.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, perfect. And within South Carolina, have there been any programs or organizations or events that you’ve gone to that have helped like progress your career, either that’s like through making connections, through specific clubs or groups or organizations? Can you think of any events like that?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, I think there are a lot. So to begin with, rotary was a very pivotal organization that I was involved with in college and transitioned into, you know, my adulthood and real girl career. And that had really helped me network with a lot of people that got me into the rooms where I had a lot more options than I probably normally would have. And I just think taking the leadership opportunities in rotary helped me work through managerial challenges and working with others that kind of helped push my work forward some more. Another one is the association, or American Marketers Association, that one is full of resources and tools that has really helped me and kind of shaped my strategy process and what those materials look like, and the training opportunities. That’s been huge. And then, recently, I’ve started working on my MBA, and that’s kind of furthered a lot of my thinking, as far as marketing goes, and kind of the business end of things. So those are a few areas that have worked really well for me. I’m a big learner. So I’m game for all of it.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. Perfect. So just as we wrap up, do you have any advice for people who are trying to get into your field?
Theresa Marchi
Yeah, I think try to get as many different kinds of experiences as possible. I think, you know, one thing that, silly in hindsight, that has actually helped me a lot because it was just a different experience, was I spent the summer working for Chant 411 [the university’s information desk] on campus. And it was an opportunity where I learned all about customer service and, that you don’t use the words “I don’t know” you just kind of use other language to kind of work through it. And I think I use that all the time. And I think about that training and really just kind of diversifying your experience in that way is really helpful. Because then when you step into a situation, especially a work situation, you can see different perspectives and new things that you wouldn’t have brought to the table, had you just solely focused on one thing. So I think a wealth of experiences is really valuable.
Emma Plutnicki
That’s great advice. And is there just anything else you’d like to add about anything?
Lauren Rose is a publication designer and the Design Editor at North State Media in Raleigh, NC. With roots in student journalism, she now brings clarity and creativity to print layouts in a fast-paced newsroom environment.
Interview
Transcript
Lauren Rose
My name is Lauren Rose. Currently I am a publication designer, and I’m from Longs, South Carolina. I’m right outside Loris, a small unincorporated area. So I usually say Loris so people know.
Emma Plutnicki
And you’re, you’re from there? Or are you currently working there?
Lauren Rose
Oh, yeah, yeah. So yep, I was born and raised in that area and lived there until I was 22. And then I got, I graduated college and got my job. Pretty much three months out of college, I was very lucky and just moved to Raleigh, North Carolina. So I’m just up the state a little bit ahead, or above. But yeah.
Emma Plutnicki
Okay, so what exactly do you do for work? What’s your official title? And how long have you been working there?
Lauren Rose
So my official title today is Design Editor. I am basically in charge of all the design at a publishing company in North Carolina, North State Media, I’ve worked with them for, oof, 2016. So going on eight years, actually, March 1 will be eight years, I joined. So when I started, it was just one newspaper, I joined from the second issue. And I’ve been on every single issue since. Now, we have grown from one newspaper to seven newspapers. We do a statewide paper, and then we do local county papers. So when I was hired, I was just hired as a graphic designer, one of a few people, just putting words on the page. And since then, it has evolved into being in charge of the design and the direction of that for the paper. So it’s been, it’s been a lot, a lot of growth, but I’m very grateful for where I’m at right now.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. So you started as a graphic designer. How did you end up in that field? And how did you end up with your job now and kind of transition from graphic designer to now?
Lauren Rose
Yeah, so the field, it really started in high school, funny enough. I’ve always been into art. And even before high school, like as a kid, like, I love the art sets and just being creative. And going into high school, I was introduced to graphic design, digital photography, and for me that, like, it really combined my artistic side with, I also am a more analytical person. I like numbers, you know, very logic based. So graphic design to me was like a perfect mix. It was important to me if I was going to pursue this as a career that I do have some element of passion in it, I want to enjoy it. So through high school, I would do little, like, side gigs for people, flyers and all that. And then going into school, I didn’t really know what type of design I wanted to do. You know, there’s publication, there’s logo, branding, all of that. I think it was just kind of a series of events, I ended up applying to be the art director of the Chanticleer [the school newspaper]. And I was the art director for a year and a half. I was very proud. It really solidified my love of design, but then, newspaper, which is very interesting, because we think of paper newspapers, very dated and dying, like print instead. But it’s just, it’s been very interesting working in the industry, and just kind of, just kind of a series of events happened. And I happened to enjoy the journey along the way.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, I love that. So right now, what does your typical workday look like? What’s expected of you? What do you work on on a daily basis? What’s kind of your process?
Lauren Rose
So this is, this is gonna be fun to talk about, because my work week is not a typical nine to five at all. A lot of creative careers will probably, some won’t be like that, you know, I’m sure there are plenty of design firms with a nine to five, but a lot of my like, co workers and my peers, they’re up at all hours of the night. They work, they don’t work during the week, and then they work on the weekend, you know. So right now we’re weekly, we publish weekly. So the majority of my work happens Sunday through Tuesday on any given week. So I’ve really learned to be like flexible and it’s difficult to describe because it is so like fast pace, kind of like so during the week it, like, slows down and then I’ll do like your basic housekeeping, make new templates, maybe explore new design ideas. And then once Sunday hits, and I do work on the weekend, which is fine, but just on Sunday, but around Sunday is when I start getting all the content and the writers get their stuff in, the photographers get their stuff in. So I need to start formulating how I’m gonna lay this paper out. I, along with being the designer, I also work very closely with editors. They appreciate my input not only artistically, but with an editorial work, the design is as important as the content a lot of times so. So yeah, it is, it’s kind of like, it’s hard to describe, because it’s just so up and down. But we get it done every week somehow. And I think a lot of people can relate in this industry.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. On a specific project that you worked on, that you were like extremely passionate about, or like a defining moment in your creative journey, it could be a specific project that had a significant impact on you, or just something that really showcased your creativity?
Lauren Rose
So, probably when I was at Coastal [Carolina University], my favorite part about Coastal’s design department was the freedom you had. Like, of course, they had projects and guidelines, but they really encouraged you to do what you want, like, take this theory and make it work for you. So I did a few projects there that I was super proud of with the Athenaeum Press. I worked on Gullah: The Voice of an Island. I was very, very excited to work on that. We went to St. Helena, I did photography, I did some web design, even though it’s not necessarily my forte now, but very, very proud of that one. And I’m still good friends with Jen and Alli, and I see all the updates. And it just makes me happy to kind of see that as just kind of still existing. But that’s the one I tell everyone about I think kind of both in my professional career and just my colleagues, I always bring that up because it was like my first big project, but also one I had a lot of passion for. So.
Emma Plutnicki
I love that. Just in general, do you find your career challenging? How do you kind of bridge the challenges that you face, especially in a creative career?
Lauren Rose
Yes. I think in any career where you are engaged and growing, it’s going to be challenging at points. And I think that’s how I get through those challenging points. I really try to frame it as, you know, this isn’t a problem. This isn’t a struggle. It’s a way to test myself and adapt myself. I’m going to use last year as an example. We probably doubled company size last year alone, and we went from a small company to a midsize one. And that doesn’t sound like a lot. But you know, when you’re in a small startup, it’s changes. And there were some times last year I was like, “I’m quitting, I’m living in the woods. I’m not doing this, like it’s done, I’m done.” And, you know, what really just pushed me through was, let’s be realistic, we have bills, we have bills to pay, but again, like coming out with more knowledge. And I told myself today, like, if I had to redo it, I would be able to do it 10 times better, I would, I would have a better system. So the challenges aren’t there to keep you down. I kind of look at it as a way to grow. And I know that might sound a little cliche, but it is so applicable. And I find myself like thinking about these cliches that I’ve heard and I’m like, “You know what, they’re cliches, they’re for a reason, you know, like, they’re applicable. So.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. And in your work, are there any specific skills that you have that you find particularly important to have? Or can you recommend any special skills that someone applying for a job should have in their kind of toolbox to increase their chances of landing a field, er, landing a role in a creative field?
Lauren Rose
I think one of the biggest things that you can showcase to make yourself solidify your part at a company or within your coworkers, is going to be adaptability. Definitely being adaptable, and being open to different perceptions of things, especially in a creative field because you’re going to meet with clients who you’re like, “This is, my design, professors would kill me if they saw, like, what these people want,” you know, but you’re, it’s kind of like, that adaptability, that overcoming those challenges and letting them help you grow. And just being kind of, letting the ego go, like go into a job, willing to learn, willing to mess up and know that like you’re not being judged. I think more employers and co-workers appreciate someone who can say, “Yeah, you know what, I’m wrong. You’re right. Let’s go this direction.” And then, you know, you learn something along the way.
Lauren Rose
A few weeks ago, I had, I was designing an ad for an advertiser, and they were being very, very specific with their instructions. And it almost felt overbearing, and you know, I let myself, I was getting frustrated. I was like, oh, like, “design it yourself, blah, blah” in my head. And at the end of it, all their suggestions looked great and I was like, “You know what? They were right,” you know. I, learned something today, and I can implement it now. So, a lot of just being humble, kind of.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that makes sense.
Lauren Rose
And I guess that’s more of a soft skill. I mean, obviously, you want to have technical skills, but I think that’s maybe not so much a skill, but a mindset also.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. And so you grew up in South Carolina, but you are now in North Carolina. Do you have any, like local organizations, programs or events that are either in South Carolina or North Carolina that have kind of helped you grow, either network or just helped inform you about creative fields?
Lauren Rose
This one was very specific to me. My high school art teacher, of course, you know. She was kind of my first line, to finding out about these things, being aware of these things, even knowing to look for these things. And just the fact that, you know, as my teacher, she was so accessible. And, you know, when she found out how passionate I was about things, and how serious I was about art, and pursuing it, like, you know, that gave her a directive to help me and, you know, really utilizing people and counselors at my high school. So that was probably my first way in. I definitely also entered a few small like little county fairs just to kind of get experience getting work out there, and just networking. And honestly, also in high school, I won the congressional art award for my district. And so my art like was in Washington DC for a while. And I just think little things like that helped, obviously, kind of get my name, get some stuff behind my name, but also, like, helped me realize, like, “Yeah, I’m an artist,” like people are looking at my work.
Lauren Rose
So there’s really not like one organization I can suggest. I think I would honestly suggest, especially in today’s age, it’s so different, because like, you can go on Facebook and Google or search like anything, and there’s groups for anything. So some of my advice might be a little outdated, but I just think like, the importance of kind of starting small, and not like shooting for the biggest, like the country wide competition, do your county, you know, do little things and, and then expose yourself. And then yeah, I think it’s all about growth.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And so, just as we wrap up, do you have any advice for someone who is looking to break into a field, whether it’s a current college student or high school student who’s looking to get into a creative field, any advice?
Lauren Rose
It’s so hard, because there’s so many different types of creative fields. So I think if I had to just, like, generally approach it, I would just say, you know, you know, it is a job, it’s a means to an end, but you need to have some passionate about it, and you need to be interested in it. And you also need to think about, do I want to do this every day for 50 years? Like, is this something like, you know, there’s a lot of factors to that and it’s very individualized.
Lex Stress is the Principal Graphic Designer at Ellucian, a tech company specializing in software for higher education. From Charleston, SC, Stress brings creativity and strategy to every project whether for clients, internal teams, or freelance ventures.
Interview
Transcript
Lex Stress
My name is Lex Stress. I’m originally from outside of Philadelphia. But I’ve been in the Charleston area for almost 10 years now.
Emma Plutnicki
Nice. And so what do you do for work? And what’s your official job title?
Lex Stress
My official title is a senior graphic designer, I work at a company called Ellucian, and they are a higher education software company.
Emma Plutnicki
Cool, and how long have you been working there?
Lex Stress
It’s been probably about two and a half years now.
Emma Plutnicki
Nice. And that’s in Charleston.
Lex Stress
So it, so I work remotely, so like 100% remote. So I am in Charleston. The actual company is headquartered out of D.C., but they have it’s like a global company. So they have offices all over the world. And I work with people all over the world too.
Emma Plutnicki
Cool. How did you end up in this field? How did you hear about it? How did you know that this was an actual path that you could take?
Lex Stress
Um, that’s a great question. So, when I first graduated from Coastal, I actually started at a candle packaging company, and was like a designer for candles, their whole world marketing everything. And I actually only worked there for about six months. And, every day on my commute, I always passed Blackbaud, which is, like, a pretty big tech company here in Charleston. And they actually had a graphic design position open up. Somehow, they like, really believed in me. And I got that position. And that really opened my world to the tech industry, working in software and being like a more in-house designer for those kinds of companies.
Emma Plutnicki
So cool. So what, what did you study at Coastal? What was your background that kind of led you into this role?
Lex Stress
Yeah, so. I was a transfer student at Coastal. So, I studied graphic design, I came in as a junior. And so, I did two years at Coastal, and prior to that, I was also I got my Associate’s in design as well. So, I just, I, wanted to get my Bachelor’s, and so I kind of finished everything out at Coastal. So, yeah, graphic design.
Emma Plutnicki
Cool. And so, now of day’s, what does a typical workday look like for you? What are your responsibilities? What are you expected to make in a day? And what does that look like?
Lex Stress
It can be kind of crazy. But basically, like I will spend my day, there, there’s a lot of variety in my role. So it really just depends on the day and the project. Like, it could be making social media graphics. It could be email banners. Right now, the biggest project we’re working on is event identities for our annual conference. So, that includes so many things like on-site graphics. I just created the registration website, just like kind of anything that goes into that conference we’ve been working on. We also have a lot of Zoom meetings since we are remote. So that’s kind of where the collaboration comes in, is through having those meetings. But really, it just. It can be anything. Which I do like. I like having the variety. And, I think it’s it’s good to cue; it helps keep me creative too, like, being able to do something a little bit different every day.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. So do you have any challenges with staying creative? Or is it like, what are your main challenges that you face on a day-to-day basis?
Lex Stress
I would definitely say it is hard, especially because, like, working as an in-house designer, that, has its own specific challenge because you are like 100% working on that brand. And so, it’s kind of unique, where it’s not like you’re jumping from different projects. I think that can be, like, the biggest creative challenge because you’re taking the same thing every day and seeing where you can push it and how it can evolve. And, that’s kind of where the creativity comes in. Versus, like, one day, you’re working on, like, a coffee shop logo. And the next day, you’re working for, like, a shoe brand or something like that. So, I found that that’s probably the biggest creative challenge, is just kind of working with that one brand. And probably the biggest thing that helps me is I actually freelance outside of my roles. So, I’ll take on those like full branding projects. And that’s kind of like where I feel like I can keep my, like, creative muscles going, basically.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that makes sense. So, was it challenging to get into this career? You mentioned that you kind of got lucky someone had faith in you. Do you think it’s hard to, do you need a little bit of luck to get into careers like this? Or how, like, what challenges are there to get into the field?
Lex Stress
Yeah, so I feel like with tech, it is kind of a difficult field in general, because it changes so fast. It’s also notorious for, like, layoffs and things like that, like you always hear like all these tech companies that’s happening with them. And I think, it is really difficult in the beginning. I think it worked out for me because, like, this was pre-COVID when I joined Blackbaud, and so I think it helped because I was living in Charleston. Their headquarters was in Charleston. I was able to interview in person like all of those things. And now, with so many tech jobs being fully remote, like, your competition is anywhere in the world versus like just in your one city. And I think that’s, like, one of the biggest challenges. But definitely, like just having, knowing certain people, like the networking skill, is so important too, because, the reason why I got my job at Ellucian is also because one of my co-workers from Blackbaud started here, and like, put in a referral for me. So, definitely, I think like, the networking piece is huge for just trying to overcome how hard it is to get your foot in the door. But, once you are there, I feel like if you have that experience, there’s so many companies that value that.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, and for networking to establish the connections. Are there, like, events or organizations, clubs, or anything within South Carolina that you can think of to go to to make those connections?
Lex Stress
I don’t know, even like, even my old professors from coastal have really looked out for me as well. Like, I’ve been able to hear about certain opportunities just through them. Because I’ve, I felt like I built a strong relationship with them when I was at school, and then they kind of keep me in mind going forward. So, definitely, I would say like, they’re a great resource. I think there are also, like, a couple of Facebook groups like an alumni network, and also specific, specific for design as well that sometimes, like, there will be postings about jobs, or just certain opportunities in there. And then, I guess the last one would just be the AIGA [American Institute of Graphic Arts] organization. And that’s national, but there is like a South Carolina chapter. And that’s just for, design.
Emma Plutnicki
And what does, what does that stand for?
Lex Stress
It is the American Institute of Graphic Arts. So, it’s like a huge professional network for design in general.
Emma Plutnicki
Perfect. And so, throughout your journey, it could be at the job that you are at now or in the past, have you had one project that stands out in your mind as just having like a significant impact on you, or it’s kind of like the capstone of your career, so far?
Lex Stress
Honestly, I feel like the conference that I mentioned prior is probably that for me, right now, that event is happening in about three and a half weeks. So, we’re like in the final push right now. But, we started with the creative development back in the summer for it and really just built it up from scratch. It’s an annual conference that happens every year, but we do specific branding for it. And this year, it’s pretty cool because it’s hosted in San Antonio, Texas, but during the event, the, like, full total solar eclipse is happening. So, we use the Eclipse as the inspiration for the branding. That has just been really cool for us. Because it’s like I said, like, working on it in-house brand is a little bit different. But, with this specific conference, we get to be super creative. And it’s just been me and one other designer pulling off, like, the entire thing. So, it’s definitely going to be, probably, like the main piece of my portfolio after, after it happens, like I can’t wait to get the photography on site, just have all of our signage and have even the mainstage like we’re working on the presentations and everything. So, that has so many different elements that it’s been really cool to work on. And I know that that’s going to be like a huge portfolio piece for me.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that’ll be so cool. And so you said networking is really important for, like, increasing your chances within the job pool. But, are there any specific skills that applicants should have or showcase to kind of increase their chances of landing a job in a field like yours?
Lex Stress
Yeah, I would say probably one of the biggest ones is just problem-solving. Because as, as you get into your career, like, I remember being in school, being surrounded by so many creative people that it never really like clicked for me that once I got into the real world, like, I would be one of the only creative type people. And so, so many other people that are not, that, don’t consider themselves creative. Really come to you, to help them, like, think through different problems. And especially like really complex things, like, that’s been a huge skill for me is just, being, really like problem solving, oriented, and really trying to help other people see it in a different way. Because they always think like, oh, you’re the creative person, like you have a brain that can like do all this. That’s like something that they really lean on us for, so showing that you can be, like, a really good problem solver and, like, very solution-oriented is definitely helpful. And then, honestly, I think like even just being, like, having a good attitude, like being somebody that somebody wants to work with, can really take you far and then just having like a good work ethic. I think, like, between those three, that’s probably been, like, the most important aspects just that I’ve seen, like throughout my career, like no matter where I am.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that’s great. And so, just like as we wrap up. Is there any advice that you would give somebody who is trying to get into this field above, like skills that they should have, or any other just generic advice?
Lex Stress
Um. Definitely, one thing is always like be on the lookout for ways that you can add skills, like as, as you kind of go throughout your career journey, it can be really easy to get into like a very specific niche. But, if you can always be adding on skills, like, I’m trying right now; I’m more like a just traditional, like graphic design. But, knowing how to do UI [User Interface] and UX [User Experiece], or knowing how to do motion graphics, like, if you can add on those kinds of skills, it just makes you so much more marketable, honestly, like, being able to do different things. Even, like, video is a really big one, just like trying to always expand your skills so that way, like no matter where you go, or what you’re doing, you can say, like, I have experience doing that, that’s something I can jump in on like right away. So, definitely just just that, like the continuous learning aspect is really important. And even just because, like,, technology changes so fast, like Figma is a really big skill for us. And that’s that was like not even really a thing when I was in school. So, I’ve had to, like, kind of teach myself just being, like, adaptable like that is really helpful. Like as you go throughout your career, for sure. Yeah, just like always, find ways to stay creative because sometimes it can be hard, but it’s definitely important to prioritize.
Emma Plutnicki
Perfect. Is there anything else you’d like to add about your profession or anything?
Lex Stress
I would say it’s definitely, a, like, it’s a, it’s a cool career to have. I love being a designer. I don’t really, it’s hard to imagine doing anything else. And I think since it is such a, like, specific field, I’ve always found that other designers are so willing to help anybody, like, if there’s ever someone who needs mentorship, or even if you’re asking for mentorship, like, people are always there and available to help you. And, same for this, like, I’m definitely a resource if anybody ever has, like, questions or needs advice, like, can definitely ask me.
Robert Taylor is a graphic designer for RallyUp, a tech platform supporting nonprofit fundraising. With over a decade of experience, he blends technical skill with emotional storytelling to design brands and campaigns that inspire.
Interview
Transcript
Robert Taylor
I actually am lucky enough to work from home. So I’m a remote worker, I am a graphic designer for a company that provides fundraising software for nonprofits, 501 C organizations, and things of that matter. So it’s a really cool job to design for a company that actually works towards helping a community.
Sara Sobota
Absolutely. Great. How long have you been working there? And what is your official job title?
Robert Taylor
So my official job title is Graphic Designer. I’m one of two designers on the team. I handle more of the marketing side designs and the other designer does the app side of the designs. And in two months, I will officially be working there for three years.
Sara Sobota
Wow, that’s great, congratulations.
Robert Taylor
Thank you.
Sara Sobota
And it’s been remote the whole time?
Robert Taylor
It has been remote the whole time, actually, yes. They used to be based out of Arizon, and then, it actually happened just before COVID hit, they decided to go remote. And I actually have co-workers that are not just all over the country, but actually all over the world. The other designer is in China. I have co-workers in Canada, my actual boss, he was previously in the UK traveling around. So it’s really cool to actually be working with people that are just all over. Different perspectives, different insights. It’s really cool.
Sara Sobota
That sounds amazing. How did you end up in this field? And how did you hear about it?
Robert Taylor
So I always liked art as a kid. But I knew that when I was in high school, I wanted to go for art, but I also wanted to be smart, and go for something that I knew was a little more secure. And I was kind of a techie kid, I actually grew up when MySpace was a thing. And I would actually use HTML code and edit my MySpace, not knowing that that was actually a job in of itself. I thought it was just something fun that I was editing my profile. And through doing that, I ended up picking graphic design as my career. CCU [Coastal Carolina University] had actually just created that as a design program, one year before I started, so I was the second graduating class for graphic design, which was pretty cool. But I basically kind of picked that, because I knew that it would be a little more secure. And again, it was more techie. I really, at the time, thought the website design was kind of cool and different, so that piqued my interest.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, that’s awesome. I don’t think I asked where you are from originally.
Robert Taylor
Um, so actually, I’m from Conway, South Carolina. So CCU has been a big part of my life, not just for me, going there, but actually my mom went to school there, I actually got to see her graduate and walk across the stage. And then she actually, eventually started to work there. She’s been working there for 18 years now. And so she’s an alumni, and then I decided to go to school there. I actually, soon after graduating, worked there as well. I worked at CCU as a student worker in the Student Accounts Office all four years, graduated and continued to work there for a few more years. So I actually ended up working at Coastal for eight years. It was really great, as well, to kind of be so involved. And then I eventually did leave to start working in the field that I got my degree in.
Sara Sobota
Do you live in Conway now?
Robert Taylor
No, actually, I live in Wilmington, North Carolina. So just about an hour and a half north, and not too far.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay, great. What does a typical workday look like for you? Can you walk us through one, if there is a typical day?
Robert Taylor
Yeah, it’s fairly typical. So I actually, I’m working in our guest bedroom right now, is where I have my desk so that I’ve got a bit of privacy. So you know, normally I wake up, I pour my iced coffee, I take a minute to sit on our balcony and just kind of relax and have some separation before jumping into my workday. Working from home is really convenient, but you do have to kind of make sure that you have a little bit of separation. There was a point where I was just waking up and coming straight to my desk and sitting down, not the healthiest of habits. So I’m making sure that I have that break in the morning. Then after I get my iced coffee, I sit down and then I firstly just go through my daily work emails. I actually do freelance on the side as well as my full time job with RallyUp. So I just take about 30 minutes in the morning to go through my emails and plan my day. Depending on the day I will have calls with my direct supervisor. I’m technically part of the marketing and communications department, how we’re structured, so we’ll have a few meetings throughout the day where we’re talking about what emails are going to be going out, what new web pages I need to create, any other large marketing campaigns. And then also depending on which clients are using our platform, I will sometimes also create graphics for them, to make sure that their fundraisers are successful, and just kind of stand out and really any other promotional materials they may need.
Robert Taylor
So really, my morning is just setting up for whatever I need to kind of do that day. And it can just be an array of those different things, which is really nice, because as a designer, myself, I like to dabble in a bit of it all. So sometimes I might design a one pager print material. So I’m designing that specifically in Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, because I know it needs to be in a print format, CMYK for printers, and then other times, I’ll be designing a web page. And I use a program called Figma for that, which is just specifically digital only, and it works in pixels, and I can relay that to our developers really easily. So yes, I get to work through a whole range of projects, which is nice.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, yeah. And then this goes back a minute, but was RallyUp a startup? Did it begin when you were hired?
Robert Taylor
It didn’t begin, but it was a startup. So they had been in action for six years? Previously, whenever I came on, so it’s still, in a way considered a startup, I would say.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Was it challenging for you to find this career path or figure out how to apply your background to this task?
Robert Taylor
I wouldn’t say my specific job, because luckily, I’ve had other design jobs previously. So to be honest, I feel like where I’m at in my career, I’ve stair stepped each time I’ve moved from job to job, which is good. I mean, that’s everyone’s goal in life, I believe. But also, as a designer, I’m always looking to learn and have things to take away with each job that I’m at. Whenever I left my career at Coastal, you know, that was not doing something in the design realm, I was collecting tuition payments, which was far from it. And the first job I took after that was actually for a marketing agency in Surfside, and they had a big range of different clients as well. So I was doing similar things where, you know, social media ads, or Google ads, or print materials and stuff, but whenever I left that job, I think the one thereafter was actually my most pivotal career change.
Robert Taylor
I ended up taking a job at a branding agency, which is slightly different than a marketing agency in how they approach their clients and what their services are, they’re a little more, I’m gonna say picky, but specific in the clients they take on because I have found out that a lot of marketing agencies, it’s fast paced, which means you’re just turning around designs a lot. Whereas the brand agency, you are focusing a lot more on what you’re providing, which I think any designer actually would almost prefer because no matter how you work, I think that you put a lot of yourself into your designs that you’re creating. So it’s more personal. And so you want to make sure that when you’re giving that to a client, they’re appreciating that enough and understand the work that’s put into it.
Robert Taylor
So I ended up moving to the mountains, just below Asheville, I was in a small town called Hendersonville working for a branding agency there. And I learned a lot in that job role. And I can give them credit. Now that company was called WE•DO, WE•DO Worldwide, a brand agency. And that is actually where I learned how to fully build websites. When I was a student at Coastal, I learned a little bit about the HTML process, but a lot has changed in tech over the years. And while hand coding is still, you should still know HTML, most websites aren’t built from pure scratch anymore like they used to be. And so that is where I learned how to build websites through different builder platforms. And that completely changed my knowledge and my abilities. And to this day, I’m still using that knowledge because most of my freelance on the side is building websites and had I not switched careers, or well, switched jobs, I should say, I wouldn’t have learned that. So again, not saying switching jobs always makes you learn more things. But it was kind of a stair step to getting to where I’m at now.
Sara Sobota
So, what prompted you to move from WE•DO to RallyUp?
Robert Taylor
So, that was very interesting. I would have stayed with WE•DO as long as I could have, because I really loved the community. I was one of five other designers. So the job that I had right out of Coastal, for Banton Media, I was the only designer, which wasn’t bad, but I didn’t realize how much I missed working with other designers. So even when I was in classes, having the critiques was stressful as a student, but looking back was really needed. You get to see feedback and other people’s perspectives and stuff and I learned that it’s not just about being worried that someone’s going to tear your art apart, it needs to be constructive. And that’s usually what it always was, I think students do tend to worry a little bit too much about it. But again, that’s a learning and growing process.
Robert Taylor
But when I went over to WE•DO, I was, again, one of five other designers. So we would sit all the time and talk, like, if one person was working on a website for a client, and they felt stuck, they’d be like, hey, I need input. And we would all gather around, look at it and give insights. And again, it was such a learning process, which was really, really amazing. It’s, it’s kind of hard to get that out of, like, out of college, to be honest. If you’re getting a job where you’re the only designer, you feel like that’s all on you. And you have to kind of like self learn. So, but the interesting thing about WE•DO is that they merged with one of the clients that they had, actually one of their larger clients, and, which wasn’t a bad thing, it was the first ever time I’ve experienced a merger. And it was good, actually, it was a growing process. But the merged company was actually one that was a business, it was a startup that was trying to provide resources, local resources, for entrepreneurs and small businesses.
Robert Taylor
So that was my first experience, a, like, direct experience with a company that was trying to help individuals, help businesses. So, they were grant funded. And all of that happened during COVID. And so unfortunately, some of the grant funding was eventually running out. So they de-merged. And I went with the other company, so I was no longer with the branding agency, which was totally okay. And then, and then they, they eventually were running out of the grant funding. They were grant funded through, actually, all of the universities in western North Carolina, because apparently, a lot of universities have Small Business Resource Centers, which I had never heard of. I didn’t know that. Which was part of their, the reason they were starting their business was so many people didn’t know that the resources were out there. So they were trying to spread and share that knowledge.
Robert Taylor
And so my role, then, I became a single designer again, and that company was called Supportedly. And so, I became the Director of Design, there, fancy title, but I was the main designer, but I still had a lot a lot to do, I ran their CRM manager where I basically managed all of the 40,000 plus contacts that we would be emailing and making sure that our email campaigns would go out properly and not say the wrong names to the wrong group of people. So because it was the entirety of western North Carolina, so we had all the different groups that we would be emailing like Cleveland County, Catawba, just all the different ranges that were out there. And so it was really nice, actually, transitioning, while I still would have loved to work at WE•DO, because again, I would be on various projects versus just one company, it helped knowing that the purpose that that was driving that company was to help people. So anytime I was designing something, it wasn’t just to market a sale, they weren’t trying to sell and make money that way. Again, they were they were grant funded, they were just there trying to help. And so I really, really enjoyed that. And they luckily gave us a big enough heads up a few months out saying, “Hey, we are trying to get more grant funds, but we will, if we don’t, we’ll run out at a certain time.” And so I started, of course, unfortunately, hunting for jobs.
Robert Taylor
But since they gave us enough of a heads up, I was able, in this scenario, not many people can but in this scenario to be a bit more specific and picky where I was trying to apply. I know how the job market is right now, most people are just trying to get a job as they can. That is just a reality. But luckily, I was just trying to be a little more specific, especially in my, at my point in my career, I knew that I wanted to stair step up again. And then be more specific in finding a company that had a culture that I really enjoyed It’s really important, again, I know it’s not easy to find a company that’s like that. But the place that I work at now, they really, really strived hard and it shows to make a company culture where everyone is happy, everyone is appreciated. There’s no negativity and so, which not saying that’s the reason why I’ve been here as long as I have, but I wanted to find a company where I could stay for a while and just grow myself as well. I would have done that with WE•DO but again with the partnership and split, it just was a reality. And it was a big learning experience for me. And so, but, I was able to luckily find a company that really cared about that and I can tell in the interview process. They wanted to find someone first that fit, versus someone that could just do the job. And I’ve learned through different companies in the past that I’ve worked at, knowing in interviews that they ask certain things, what they actually mean and what they’re looking for. And vice versa, you know, me asking them to make sure that I’m going to work somewhere that I’m going to enjoy. And it’s not just a job. Sorry. Yeah.
Sara Sobota
Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That’s amazing. Wow. Okay, great. It sounds like your career’s really had an arc that is in a good direction. Yeah. That’s great. Can you recommend any specific skills that an aspiring applicant should have to increase their chances of landing a role in your field?
Robert Taylor
I think, to be honest, what’s helped me the most, that I’ve noticed in my journey, is actually knowing a bit about coding and websites. But that was for my current job that I have, that actually was not even a requirement. It helped, but they use a developer to actually build them. There’s pages that I’ve worked on, when he’s been busy, that has helped. But knowing that understanding, I think, even if it doesn’t need to be applied, can help, because I can relay information to the developer or when I’m designing the pages, I have an understanding of what’s more doable. I mean, most things can still be created, but it might be really difficult, or it might take too long. And so understanding more of the reality of that.
Sara Sobota
Yes.
Robert Taylor
But I feel like most design can be learned in general. And so from my own experience, if I don’t know it, I can tend to YouTube it or find a Skillshare, or an online class that can kind of teach me. Most of the principles that are learned in school, I’ve been able to still just apply, you know, there’s basic principles of design. But at the same time, even those principles, I’m not saying they can be broken, but design is so subjective, that things change, I could want a design to be one way, but that doesn’t mean that it has to be that way to succeed or work in its role. And that’s, that would be one other thing that I guess would be a good mindset to understand is that internally, as a designer, working for a company, you know your company, and you know what you want the end user or customer to do. But when, I guess this, this technically would be a skill, it’s a learned skill to understand, really just putting yourself in their shoes, the customer or the users’ shoes to make sure it’s working. To make sure they understand it, because you might know how your application works. But someone that’s never used, it might not have a clue, they might not know that they can do all these different things. And so your role as a designer is not just to make something look pretty, sometimes it is, but most of the time, it’s actually serving a purpose.
Robert Taylor
And so understanding what the purpose is first, before you started design, I think is a good skill. Really, it’s an eternal, it’s a brain skill, it’s a mind skill, not necessarily a physical one. But that would be something that I think would be really good for designers to understand, jumping into a role. And this is more of a reflection point of view. But I think artists and designers, we compare ourselves to other people, a lot, other designers a lot, impostor syndrome, it happens no matter who you are.
Robert Taylor
But I, from a personal standpoint, have talked with other people that are trying to break into the design realm, and haven’t had a bunch of classes and/or gone to school for it. And they feel like they can’t be a designer because of that. And I, if anyone is watching these videos and think that I want to let them know that that’s not true. You can be a designer without having all these different courses. You don’t have to take a website design course to learn, and know, website design. I mean, you’ve got to find it from somewhere. But you don’t have to have gone to like college and specifically taken web design 101, 102, 105 to get to get all the way there. I’ll say this now. I mean, when I’m building websites, I sometimes forget how to do things. And I go right to Google. And I think a lot of people don’t realize that web designers, developers, we will do that. We’ll be like, “what is the code for that again? I completely forgot.” And Google comes in for the win, or YouTube, there’s, there’s resources out there. And so I really think that if anyone is trying to break into the design realm, they should try and use those resources because I’m going to say that back when I was in school, those resources were not necessarily there. I mean, YouTube was still brand new, where you would sit and if you had to upload a video it would take like five hours and and most of the videos on there were not help videos. They were just random things that people put out there, or music videos, and that’s how we would listen to music. But there’s so much information at our fingertips now that you can learn something, I mean, designers, you have to have not a natural eye for things, but that does help. But most of what graphic design is, is learning how to use tools to get the end goal and all of that can be learned for sure.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, that’s right. That makes sense. Okay, okay, great. Are there any local organ– first of all, I don’t know if I covered this before, what year did you graduate from Coastal?
Robert Taylor
2013
Sara Sobota
2013. Okay, I think that was something I overlooked. Are there any local organizations or programs that you recommend for aspiring creatives? Associations or professional groups or any events?
Robert Taylor
There are professional groups in Myrtle Beach. I’m not going to get the correct acronym, but I know that it’s like a youth in business, young business leaders, I think? Is one of the– now that one’s not specifically just for designers. But that is an overall one that would help, that is one that helps network people in the local area, which networking is always a good thing to do. And I have learned that over the years as well. The whole phrase, it’s not what you do, it’s who you know. I think it’s how that phrase goes, or at least that’s how I say it. And it’s very, very true. And in my career, that’s actually been something that’s helped with my freelance. I knew someone that works heavily with the Murrells Inlet marshwalk, that group of eight of the restaurants that’s right on the inlet, and I do their marketing and designs now. So I redid their website, they are about to do Fourth of July event coming up, and I do their posters and banners. And that’s been an ongoing thing. And so knowing that networked person has just helped with my career, because that’s just a steady stream of design work that I can have that I don’t have to like, go out and look for. That’s kind of just been something that’s come up in that. it’s come to me. Yeah.
Sara Sobota
That’s great.
Robert Taylor
And then on campus, I actually, I am hoping it’s still in play. But there was a club called SAS, Student Artists Society. And it had started the year before I was there. And then I became a member, its first year, or well, I guess, second year. And then I was the treasurer one year, vice president, and then president for I think two years or one year. And so that was a, just a student led organization in the art department where we would have various artists come in and speak and do like kind of smaller, like seminars and conferences, and then we would do also philanthropic things like bake sales, art, art building, and we also did a pumpkin painting or carving or designing contests, we would do that every year, and faculty and staff would actually come and buy those pumpkins. And so we would raise money for local organizations. We would also do, I believe we called it Empty Bowls.
Sara Sobota
Oh, my gosh, that’s still going on. Yeah.
Robert Taylor
Is it still going on? Good. Okay, so we, so I have to give credit to one of the professors, they came up with the idea. But we would do that every year. And then we would donate the profits to local food pantries, or there was an organization in Myrtle Beach, I’m trying to think of the name, street…
Sara Sobota
Oh, Street Reach?
Robert Taylor
Street Reach! Yeah, and we would donate money for that as well to help with the homeless. And we actually got to tour their facility one time where they showed us how they bring people in and not just have them for the night, they actually help with like the rehabilitation process and help them get jobs and things like that, and help them get on their feet or get like means of transportation and stuff like that. But that was, that was something that helped make more bonds outside of the classroom. Because you don’t, you’ll see other art majors in the hallways, but you don’t always have classes with them. And so that was a way to actually kind of get to meet other people that were in those classes. And same thing with that club. It was people that were in different levels, like different grades. So most of the time, when you’re in your art classes, you’re in with the same group that you’re going to graduate with, versus being in that club, you were in a range. So you know, when I was a senior we had freshmen that were coming in, and so it was great for them to like kind of learn, and mingle with someone that’s had more of the, more classes and things like that. It’s just great perspective. So that’s one that is very localized because it’s right there on campus, that they can join.
Sara Sobota
Yeah, good. Okay. I have like three or four empty bowls because I always go buy one.
Robert Taylor
Awesome.
Sara Sobota
Okay. Do you have any advice for current college students or pre professional young adults who are pursuing a career in the creative world?
Robert Taylor
Oh boy. I mean, I know I touched on some of that in previous questions because I know I just kind of like rattle on with with knowledge and stuff. But I think one of the biggest things, this is gonna sound so typical, but it’s just being confident. We’re our own worst critic. And starting out, it’s inevitable that starting out your your first and early designs are not going to be your best. But that does not mean that that’s where you’re going to stay. You’re going to grow. I mean, just the other day, I was redoing my online portfolio. And I went back and looked at some of my earliest designs, and I’m just like, wow, that was just horrible. But that’s okay. Because that’s where I started out. And if I hadn’t have started that I wouldn’t be where I am now. I wouldn’t have grown.
Robert Taylor
And I kind of, in a way, whenever I left Coastal, I took a leap of faith is what I’m going to call it with leaving a job that was comfortable, where I knew I could just keep doing it, doing it. But it wasn’t what I went to school for. And not just that, it was not what I enjoyed or had a passion for. And so if you’re a young designer, and you have a passion, go for it. It might not be easy, and it probably won’t be. But that’s not the point. The point is not easy. The point is to do the things that make you happy. And luckily enough, I have gotten to a point where, in my career, I am doing that. Now, yes, it is still a job. But I get to be creative in my field. And that is, I mean, that’s something that makes me happy. With, with projects that I have, even though there’s an end goal, I can still have kind of like free range of design, and how it should look.
Robert Taylor
So yeah, so like young designers starting out as well, try different things. You might think that you like one thing, and you actually find out that you don’t, or something else is a little more fun that you never knew. I mean, I still took regular art classes that weren’t design classes whenever I was there. And I ended up really loving watercolor. And that was something that was not something that I knew that I was going to pursue as a career. But it was something that helped me relax. So that’s always something good to find, too is something that you can separate from a work life kind of balance type situation, something that you can still find enjoyment in, that is not your every day to day tasks.
Robert Taylor
And this is another kind of random thing. It is still design related. That whenever I first started out, I had a teacher that loved type. And at the time as a student, I could care less about type. I was like, “Okay, it’s a word that’s nice.” And then something happened my senior year, I had him again. And we had a project where we had to create booklets, actual 3d printed booklets. And it was, I did mine on the Gestalt principles. And when type originated, I don’t know why I picked that one, I just did for some reason. And then during that project, it just, a light bulb just popped in my head. And I was like, “I get it now I understand type.” And I just started to really enjoy it. And had I not taken his class and had that project and really kind of like, tried to understand it, that wouldn’t have opened up and then that really became large for me because soon after I ended up taking a job, in the in the midst of graduating Coastal, I had some interesting back and forth where I did actually take a few jobs and then come back to Coastal a time or two. That was too difficult for me to explain, but I did ping pong a bunch. And luckily, I was able to come back each time to the exact same job in the exact same office. And it just worked out. They just had an opening and I was like, “Oh, I’m thinking about moving back.” But I did actually end up taking a job for a magazine. It was a golf magazine out of Hilton Head, South Carolina. And I had all of the knowledge now on typography and layout design and such from that course that I was able to get that job. And so yeah, if you’re a new designer, just take different classes, find out what you do and don’t like because you really might think you like one thing and then find out you like something better. So just try different things. Try new things.
“I’ve always been an artist; I drew all the time.”
Gil Shuler is a graphic designer and business owner in Charleston, South Carolina. He holds a Bachelor’s in Fine Arts with a concentration in Graphic Design from Western Carolina University. He has owned his design studio and company, Gil Shuler Graphic Design Inc., for over forty years and is known for his artwork of the “Palmetto Doves.”
Interview
Transcript
Gil Shuler
My name is Gil Schuler, and I am, originally I was born in Sumter, South Carolina, but I’ve lived in Mount Pleasant, Charleston area since 1983.
Emma Plutnicki
Perfect. And can you tell us what you do for work?
Gil Shuler
I am a graphic designer. And that was my major in college, and I was BFA bachelor of fine arts with a concentration in graphic design. So I’ve had a design studio here in Charleston, Mount Pleasant since 1985.
Emma Plutnicki
Amazing. So do you, or is it your own art studio? Or do you work in an overarching umbrella company or anything?
Gil Shuler
No, it’s my own company. I’ve had Gil Schuler Graphic Design Inc. since ’85 and I’ve normally had like, five to six employees. Over the past 30 something years or so, right before the pandemic, I decided to scale down. It was me plus three in my studio, in my big studio, and about eight months before the pandemic, I decided to scale down, and it was time and so I let everybody go. And most of the folks that have worked for me, those three, one had worked for me for twenty-three years, one for eighteen and one for, like, eight. And they all landed on their feet. They’re all good to go. And so, now I sold my studio, I built a studio seventeen, eighteen years ago. And it was a big 2700 square foot really cool studio designed by Reggie Gibbs and so then when I was my plan to eventually sell it, so I sold it about a year ago, a little over a year ago and moved into my home studio, which is this giant, little room right here.
Amazing. So how did you end up doing this? How did you hear about it? How did you know that this was something that you could even do?
Gil Shuler
Oh, I’ve always been an artist. And growing up, I drew all the time, and I wanted to do something with that. And I used to take private art lessons and do oil paintings. And I did that up until about 10th or 11th grade and I got kind of burned out on it.
Gil Shuler
So my parents were all about education, and I had two older siblings that had already gone off to college. And so you know, it was definite going to college. And I looked at a bunch of colleges, and I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I really just wanted to get out of town, you know. So I went to Anderson Junior College, because that was the only place I could get in. And I was there for two years, and after the second year of just basically partying, I was like, “you know, I need to do something.” And so I took art classes because I was good at that. And so I talked to my professor and they said, “Hey, have you ever heard of graphic design?” And this was this ’80, 1980-’81 I was like, “No.”
Gil Shuler
I love music, I play music. I’ve always had lots of albums. So I loved album art, you know, specifically, and then skateboard stuff and skateboard T-shirts. Sso I was always into that, I just didn’t know what it was called. And so then she introduced me to it and said “there’s this great program at Western Carolina” at the time Western Carolina University. So I went up there and showed them my little measly portfolio and got accepted into their program and, and had two major intense years. It was a great program. Great professor. Wade Hobgood was the professor then and he’s awesome. And so I came out of there in ’83 with a BFA and concentration in graphic design with this really great portfolio from all the hard work we’ve done over two years. And it was a lot about teaching the basics of design and concept and conceptual design and logos and branding and stuff.
Gil Shuler
But also, you know, this was, you know, ’83 So we didn’t really get computers until ’92 or ’93-’94. So for my first 10 years of business, I did everything by hand. And that’s how we learned was ruling pins and mechanical boards. And so when you’re doing that stuff, it’s all print stuff, you know, everything ends up being printed back in the day. And so you had to know the printing processes. So that was a big part was learning about printing so you could spec jobs, so you could design jobs that could be produced and not you know, because you don’t know anything, so, we learned a lot about that, procedures of that stuff. So then, you know, I started doing it. That’s how I got into it and I loved it, now, I’ve always loved it and from from when I started doing it at Western I was like “oh this is so cool.” And, and even though I’m somewhat ADHD, I’ve never been a real organized person, I could do this, you know, it was all about thinking and ideas and coming up with ideas and then executing them really well. And I liked that part of it, working with my hands and doing all that stuff. And so, you know, I’m 63 now and I still love doing it. And I like it more even now that it’s just me, you know?
Emma Plutnicki
That’s great, yeah, that’s an amazing journey. So nowadays, what does a typical day look like?
Gil Shuler
Oh, man, well, a typical day for me is like, get up, lesiure in the morning, cup of coffee, come back into my little space. I have jobs, I have multiple jobs. This is like my list, here, that I produce, every Monday I write a new list. And so I go down the list and I work, and so depending on the weather, depending on the day, you know, I might come in here in the morning work for a couple hours. And then if the tides, you know, right for going out, throw in the fly, I got a little flat boat and I’ll take off and go fishing and come back and work. So it’s, it’s fairly unregulated. It’s not like, you know, going to work that nine o’clock in the morning knocking off at five, I may start work at 10 o’clock, and I might not look up till two o’clock, I might start at 10 stop at 11 go do some for a few hours come back. It’s real flexible.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that makes sense. So has it been challenging in this career field, especially being an entrepreneur? Getting into the field? Having success in the field and kind of being your own director?
Gil Shuler
When I first started, you know, it was, like I said, ’83, and Charleston, I wanted to live down here in Charleston, because I’ve always loved Charleston, and I love the saltwater, like I said I do a lot of fishing. So I wanted to be near the saltwater. And there wasn’t a lot of folks down here then you know? And so I started working for a couple of little small ad agencies, I worked for a year and a half, and then I went out on my own and ’85 but they were basically print shops like design studios, and we would do for developments from down in Beaufort all the way up to, you know, Myrtle Beach there’d be these coastal developments and we do a lot of identity and branding and stuff for that stuff. And I was, I did not like account managers and account executives and so, and I’ve never been one to answer to many folks, you know, but I worked all through high school, but I really haven’t ever worked for anybody except for myself, you know? Because I just I like to do it the way I like to do it and so I don’t work good with other folks when it comes to that. Plus you, I told you, I like to get up when I get up, I was always late to work when I worked for people. And it was challenging in, it was challenging in that it was new and learning the business and learning how to do accounts payable and accounts receivable and all that stuff because I’ve never had any business acumen and I’m not a math guy, so, it was just winging it and learning from mistakes. And I’ve always been about high design and studying design so I came down here at a great time when there wasn’t, there was like maybe one other design studio, and one other guy that was really pretty good, but that was it. And, so I was like “wow, this is great.” So I immediately, I met my wife and my first studio was this old building that fell down during Hugo but it was an artist building like six stories and it was real raw, it was, it was like bricks falling out and you know, no central heat and AC or anything like that. It was just an artist’s loft four stories. It was West Fraser and Mariana Fraser up there and chopstick theaters on the bottom floor. And so I met my wife who was in the theater company, and they were a professional theater company doing shows and I said, “Well, let me do your posters. And I’ll get them printed, and I’ll do ’em big, and I’ll do them for free and I’ll get them printed for free.” And so then I would get them printed, then I’d go around town and stick them up and, and so that’s really how I started getting work. You know, I had work from the other agencies that people followed me and would hire me to do it, but then they’d start seeing who did that stuff, and then people would call me, and it was a real different time without computer and internet and email and all of that, you know, it was mostly word of mouth. And then they would have these big award ceremonies at the end of the year whether it was the Addy Awards or, or some art directors club there that was here for a while and so that’s where I put all my eggs in my basket, end of the year I’d enter all these things with stuff I had done, that I thought was good, and I won a lot of awards and then my name got around and I started staying busy all the time.
Gil Shuler
And now you know you swing a dead cat you’re gonna hit a graphic designer, it seems like in this town. Which is fine, because now with the, with the advent of the Internet and computers and everything you can work from anywhere, you know. So I work for people all over the place, I’m going on a van trip at about at April 1st for like three weeks and taking one of my computers and I got a Starlink Wi-Fi that I’ll put out on top of the van when we stop so I can work if I need to work and access the internet, because you know. So we work in programs, it’s Adobe Creative Suite, and they’re all in the cloud. If I want to work in Illustrator and work on a job, I gotta have Wi-Fi. And so I think it’s gonna work out pretty good, I’m kind of excited to try it, you know, I’ve never really gone on the road and worked.
When you mentioned just now about the awards, are there any other organizations or events in South Carolina that could be helpful for kind of networking, getting your way into a field like this?
Gil Shuler
You know, there’s not that many here anymore. If you’re a designer, and you want some exposure, clients or customers like that, there’s a lot of options. There’s a lot of like, there’s this program on this website called Dribbble, it’s got three B’s in it, and it’s a site for artists and graphic designers and illustrators. And you can put a portfolio on there, and you can pay certain amount a month and be a pro and get hired from that now. But there’s a lot of those like that. The way to promote yourself now as a graphic designer is on social media. And that’s whether it’s Instagram, or Facebook, of course, all the TikTok, Instagram, X, then there’s Threads. And so getting yourself out there on those things is really the way to go. And I was late to the game on that, you know, so, but that’s how you promote these days. I think that’s the way to go. If I just started when all that stuff started doing that promotion, I’d have tons more followers, I think. But whatever.
So throughout your entire career, have you had one project that stands out as like significantly impacting you, or just kind of being like a defining moment in your creative journey?
Gil Shuler
Normally I’d say no, because I really like every job I work on. But one that a lot of people would say that identifies me is when Dylann Roof went in the church, in Emanuel, in Mother Emanuel down here 10 years ago and shot those people, that was just, I know that church, I knew some of those people, you know, it’s literally from my studio to that church is like three miles. And it just moved me, I mean, it was just a tragedy and just shocking. And so that next day I came in and did this little Palmetto Doves, this art right here for the nine people that died. And people just love that and it’s still going on. And people, I send them the art, I don’t charge anything for that they get stickers and shirts, and everything printed up. And so that might be the one thing that is proud work, you know.
Yeah. Just as we wrap up, do you have any advice for people who are looking to get into a career similar to yours or any specific skills that are beneficial to have, if you were to try to get into this field?
Gil Shuler
You know, if somebody wants to try and get into, like, the graphic design field, which has a lot of, there’s a lot of specialties in it. There’s everything from illustration to, you know, brand identity, to print publication to poster design to all of that. So it involves all that. I do feel it’s important that if you can get an education specific to that field is good, and so that’ll get you a head start because you have portfolio and you can look at getting a job and or even working on your own depending on how much of a, how ambitious you are and how much of a go-getter you are.
Gil Shuler
But the best advice I can give somebody is to, you know, get your portfolio together. If you want to work for somebody go out and interview, send it out to a lot of people, start a social media page, post it on there, make yourself a website, whatever you can do. Once you get the job, whether you work for yourself and you, somebody hired you to do a job, a logo, or whether you’re working for another design studio as an art director, as a designer, you really need to listen, you need to listen really good. And always remember that don’t be a diva, your, the client is paying you and they’re the ones, they’re the one that has to live with the artwork. You don’t have to live with it. They have to live with it. So, I’m not saying that their, what they say goes. You put your best effort toward giving them what you think is the best solution. And if you give them that best solution and you sell I’d like to them, this is the solution, and they go, “ehh, not really crazy about it,” the last thing you want to do is go, “well, screw you, I’m not doing that,” you know? You really want to say, “okay, cool,” and be flexible and listen and hear what they want to say. And most of the time they’re right, you know, and you’re wrong. You’re just your ego and, and you might have a great piece of art, but you might can use that art five years from now in something else, you know? So really, the best advice is to be flexible. Listen, don’t talk, listen. I mean, I can’t say that enough. And then execute. When you when you do get the job and you are hired, or it’s assigned to you by your art director, you put your best foot forward and you come up with a great idea. And if you, you know, and however you, once you get that idea and you want to show it, you need to execute it and your craftsmanship needs to be at a real high level.
Gil Shuler
And so, so learn those programs and learn craftsmanship and do work for free if you can, if you can afford to, just to build your chops. You know, I still, every week, I do a barn jam poster for Awendaw Green, which is a music venue here. And I’ve done that poster, a poster almost every Tuesday night since 2010 or 2009. I’ve got close to 1000 of these posters, okay? And I think that all started around the time of the recession, and basically I was doing it just to have some work and to just get better. You know, you can always get better so I’m always trying to get better. And I think in this business that’s how I can do it.
“Everyone’s got their own journey, and you have to find your way. I would never discourage anyone from a journey in the applied arts or the creative arts if they have the drive and the will to do it. Because that’s the biggest part of it: just being disciplined.”
My name is Marius Valdes. I’m from Charleston, South Carolina. I currently live in Columbia, South Carolina. I’m a professor at the University of South Carolina. I teach graphic design and illustration. I’m also a practicing artist and illustrator.
Emma Plutnicki
Amazing. So can you just tell us what your official job title is? And how long you’ve been working as a professor there?
Marius Valdes
Yep, it’s Professor of Studio Art. And I’ve been here since 2007, so something like 17 years.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah.
Marius Valdes
So long!
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that is a long time. So how did you end up as a professor, and I believe before you were a practicing professional in the field, so how did you kind of make that transition from practicing in the field to then to academia?
Marius Valdes
So I graduated from the University of Georgia in 1998. And I worked as a designer for about five years, four or five years. And I had got to a point where I was really exploring illustration, I was kind of enjoying that almost more than the design work I was doing. But one of the things I felt like was limiting me as a designer was, I didn’t feel like I was very good at talking about my work. So I thought going to graduate school would be kind of a good way to go and kind of expand my education, and kind of take what I’ve been doing for four or five years and kind of refocus and kind of just make myself more marketable. And while I was there, I had no intention of being a professor or teacher, I just, I mean, that, to me, just seems today still seems kind of crazy. They let me do that. But when I was there, part of my scholarship was to teach a class. And I just loved it. And it was really fun. And what I found was kind of like, even though some of the students I taught were, were, maybe in some ways, more talented than I was, as a designer, I just knew more than them, because I had been doing it as a professional. And so that, and I just kind of really enjoyed it.
Marius Valdes
When I originally started college, I wanted to be, I was going to be a psychology major, because I thought maybe I would be a counselor, or a shrink or something. I like talking to people. But then I realized there was science involved. So I feel like teaching has kind of given me, sort of that ability to do that sort of stuff, in addition to, you know, teaching. So.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, makes sense. So what background kind of led you to being a professor? So do you think like, specifically with you do studio design, how has your background within studio design helped you to teach it now?
Marius Valdes
Yeah, so I think what helped me was, and I always tell students who are thinking about going to grad school to work for a couple of years, because when you get out of college, and you start working, and this is this is also why internships are really important, it gives you a chance to kind of figure out what you like, and also what you don’t like. So for example, I was working in Charleston, and I was doing really well, I was working for companies were doing a lot of real estate, like brochure design and advertising for real estate companies. And it just got so boring. I mean, it was just sort of like, it paid okay, and it was a nice job. But it just wasn’t very interesting. And I started kind of painting on the side for fun. And I was literally finger painting on cardboard. And that started winning me awards. And I was, just, was like “what?” you know.
Marius Valdes
So it was kind of taking those things that were fun with the practical stuff I had kind of learned as a designer, and putting those together and then going to graduate school for two years, and working with a whole, a whole new group of professors who treated me more like a colleague and less like a student, and just learning to talk about work and look at my own work and kind of evaluate it, and look at other people’s work and be able to learn how to talk about it. All those things make me able to teach now, you know. Some semesters are easier than others, you know, some groups of students are easier to work with than others. But usually it just means it takes me a little longer to kind of get through to people. But once I do, you know, I can share with them what I’ve been through. And I think that helps.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah, that’s great. So nowadays, can you walk us through like a typical workday, like what you have to do, what classes you teach, and just what’s expected from you on a daily basis?
Marius Valdes
Yeah, so I teach what they call two-two load, which means I teach two classes in the fall and two classes in the spring. I teach Mondays and Wednesdays, which is why I normally check my calendar first thing Monday morning. But the thing about teaching is my classes are two hours long. And I don’t always go the full time because a lot of times, the students, I give them something to do and they need get started and they’ve got to meet with me, and then once I’ve I met with them they need to go work. And that can be, they can stay in the classroom, they can go to a design lab, they can go to the library, they can go wherever they need to do their work. But for me on Mondays and Wednesdays, I’m teaching from eleven to four. Before the classes start, I’m usually checking email, getting caught up talking to students.
Marius Valdes
On Tuesdays and Thursdays I do office hours, and that might be coming into my office and actually meeting with people, it might be doing a Zoom call, it might just be looking at work that’s been posted online and making comments on it. And then, and then I’m also doing emails with, you know, colleagues and trying to figure out how to keep the design program going. It might be service at the university where I have to go to, like, for example, I was a faculty senator for a bunch of years. And that was a thing where we, every once a month, for two or three hours, you go a really long meeting and talk about all the things going on at the university.
Marius Valdes
So and then, Fridays are usually research days where it’s supposed to be a day where you have kind of an uninterrupted time to just work on your work. Although I will say this year, it’s been a lot of meetings on Fridays, because there’s so much going on all the time. At the university level, I’m at what they call research one university. So that mean the emphasis is 40% teaching, 40% research, and then 20% service, which is doing things like being a faculty senator, for example. Other schools, like I taught at USC Upstate for for two years. That’s what they call a teaching school where you’re teaching more classes and there’s less expectation of you doing research. So and research for me, is doing design work, doing illustration work making art putting the other shows and stuff like that. Going to conferences presenting my work.
Emma Plutnicki
Cool. Yeah, so, you just mentioned like putting together projects and things like that. Do you have one project that stands out in your career as being, like, exceptionally motivating toward you or something that just had a significant impact on your life?
Marius Valdes
Oh, yeah. You know, the past couple of years, I’ve been working with the medical universities, Carolina’s Children’s Hospital in Charleston. And I got a couple of grants through the school to work with them and created several murals for them. I’ve created some kid’s activities, books for the therapists to use. I would say that’s been the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done, because it’s weird, I mean, I’m not kidding you, about an hour ago, a guy I work with here was like, “Hey, man, I’m at MUSC right now in the children’s hospital with my kid and my kid is like obsessed with your frog, you know, the mural, and it’s, you know, it’s been really nice, like, it’s really made a difference on this visit, you know,” and I get, I get emails like that occasionally from people. And it’s always kind of sad, because like, the only way to really see those things is if you have a sick kid, but I really enjoy that.
Marius Valdes
And then I have other projects, I’ve done things that are more self initiated, where I’ve kind of created little casts of characters. Some of them are called The Secret Species, and they’re these little clay figures, and I kind of would make art about them and leave them places and stuff. And I got a lot of mileage out of those, like that was kind of part of my thesis for my grad school. And I just kept kind of working on it. I got some really good kind of attention for that work that was meaningful to me, for people to say like, “wow, this is a really creative idea,” you know. I kept hoping, like, a toy company would come and offer me a couple million dollars for it. But that never happened. So.
Emma Plutnicki
No, that’s so cool. And just like, overall, has it been challenging in your career, both as a professor and as, just, like, a practicing creative?
Marius Valdes
Yeah, I mean, you know, I’ll be honest with you, I think like being a professional creative is not for the weak of heart. But what I will tell you is that when I was probably a little bit, like, your age, or even a year or two younger, I remember driving with my dad, and telling him like, “I think I’m gonna be an art major.” You know? I was just waiting for him to like, say, “What are you doing?” you know, and he just said to me, he’s like, “Well, if you do something like that, that you love, you’ll never really work.” And I kind of feel like that. I mean, now, I do feel like I work. But, I mean, I work on things I care about. And I think that to me, is sort of one of the main things is like, you know, on my worst day, I might be, I might be struggling with a painting, you know, or an illustration for a client. But what I’m sitting here doing is drawing, you know. And I’m married to, my wife is a paralegal. she has a very normal nine to five job. And, you know, her job is answering to five attorneys all, you know, screaming, like, “I need this now I need this now.” And I can’t really complain too much, right?
Marius Valdes
The other thing is, I think that like, if you go into design or advertising, you are a little bit subject to your clients, and where you’re working and who your clients are, versus academia, which is much more steady, it’s a little bit more of a routine, you know, you kind of get into a groove. And I feel like whenever it gets too stressful, oh, spring break! Oh, Christmas time, here’s a month off! Here’s summertime, you can go paint for a month. And you kind of get all the stress of all the things you have to do, kind of out of your system, and then you reset. So I feel like I’ve done a little bit of everything in the creative world. And I think like, sometimes the grass is greener, you know, sometimes you’re doing, you know, I’m doing academia, and I’m here teaching a bunch of kids, or students, and I think like, “man, I’d really like to just be in like an office setting right now, working on a project all day, sitting in front of it not worrying about this person or this person or this person.” But then you go into have a critique, and your students bring in a bunch of amazing work. And you’re like, “oh, man, I am a good teacher!” you know. I mean, I joke around them all the time, and when they do something good. I always say, “Oh, I do know what I’m doing.” You know? So there’s, there’s little rewards everywhere.
Marius Valdes
And I think there’s all levels of like, I look at some people who have careers, you know, in the arts, and they are just doing amazing things. And they’re making gobs of money. And they have tons of exposure and fame and fortune. And I looked at people who were totally content just to be in their studio painting all day and illustrating and never seeing anybody and that makes them happy too. So you kind of, it’s like anything in life, you kind of have to everyone’s got kind of their own little journey. And you kind of have to find your own way. But I would never discourage anyone from a career in the applied arts or creative arts, if they have the drive and the will to do it. Because I really think that’s the biggest part of it is just being disciplined, you know?
Emma Plutnicki
And along with being disciplined, are there any physical skills that you think are beneficial for people trying to break into a world of design? Like any specific skills that maybe you possess, that help you in your day to day life, or just if you saw, if you were like hiring for a design job, and you saw, “Oh, this applicant has this skill,” what kind of things like that are beneficial to have?
Marius Valdes
Yeah, I think anytime you can get better and faster at learning the software, that just like becomes like a tool in your tool belt that will help you get your ideas out faster. The one thing I preach to my students about a lot, and I always tell them this story that I graduated on Friday, and I started the following Monday freelancing at Cartoon Network, which at the time, back then that would have been my dream job, to work there and work, you know, with animation stuff. And what happened was, I was at this, I was at Turner network, which is in Atlanta, and they were using a brand new version of Adobe Illustrator that was different than what we had in my undergrad at Georgia. And I just could not teach myself how to figure out the new software, because I was used to like having a professor always come over my shoulder and say, “All right, push that button, push this button.” And back then there was no, there was no Skillshare there was no LinkedIn learning, it was called Adobe Classroom in a book, and it was a book like this thick, and you had to flip through and follow the steps, and it was really unintuitive. So I always kind of preach, I think one skill students can really do is teach themselves how to learn, and learn how to learn, and be open, you know, because technology is changing so quickly, that if you can’t keep up with it, it’s gonna really, it’s gonna really hinder your growth, I think.
Marius Valdes
And the other thing is to be a design sponge or art sponge. And I mean that in the sense of like, don’t just look at Pinterest. And don’t just look at Google. It’s like, go to the library, look at design books, find stuff that’s been curated and edited, and it’s got the really good stuff in it, because the stuff you see on the internet, while some of it’s really cool, a lot of it is just a copy of a copy of a copy, you know. It’s good to go back and go to the original stuff. And I think also just being a decent person, a nice person, nice to people. That goes a really long way. You know. And not everybody is gonna be nice to you, but I think, you know, I think I’m in this job because I’m a good, I’m a decent person. And I think that like as I make connections and network and you start meeting people, I think people are like, “Oh, that’s someone I would want to work with,” you know?
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. That makes sense. So, for networking, are there any events or programs or organizations within South Carolina to meet people like that? Like design specific events or anything that you know of that someone who’s looking to get into that field could go to and kind of meet people that have similar minds?
Marius Valdes
Yeah, well, for design, AIGA [The Professional Association for Design] has always been kind of the big national organization, and they have chapters throughout. Some chapters are better than others. We used to have one in Columbia that was amazing, and it’s almost, I mean, it’s basically dead now. But you could go to Charlotte, or depending on where you live, you could go to Atlanta, or maybe another place that has a little bit more thriving AIGA chapter.
Marius Valdes
The other thing we’re seeing is like, here at the university we’ve got a group of students who just kind of took it upon, amongst themselves to start a new chapter of a design club. And they’ve been doing, I mean, they’ve been doing amazing things they’ve been bringing guest speakers and doing workshops for students that are younger than them. And it’s just kind of been, it’s been really cool to see them kind of take a mentorship role. And some of the speakers they’ve got in, I’m just like, “how did you get that person for free?” I mean, you know, I think if there’s not something for you to use, then you can always start your own thing, and get like minded people together. And then there’s also, for advertising, there’s the Advertising Federation, there’s usually chapters of that. So for example, there’s Midlands Federation here, and they have things every year called The Addy Awards. So those are competitions you can put your student work in and try and get feedback on. But those are kind of probably the main ones I would think about, you know?
Emma Plutnicki
Okay, yeah, amazing. And then just as we wrap up, do you have any advice for either a college student who’s trying to, after graduating, get into design or academia, or just somebody who wants to get into a creative field? Any advice?
Marius Valdes
Yeah, I mean, so one of the things I’ll tell you is, you know, and again, it’s something I tell my students all the time is, you’re going to graduate with a portfolio that you made. And if you have a good teacher, it should be a good portfolio, right, should be a pretty solid portfolio. But the day you graduate, you could take that portfolio, you can throw in the garbage, and make one that you really like, you know? Or you can have several, you could have a portfolio that’s aimed at a very conservative company, you could have one that sort of, like, aimed at like your dream company, you could have one that is more about your illustration than your design, or one that’s all about your lettering. And the main thing is like you want to go after the kind of work you’re interested in doing, because if you put a bunch of calligraphy or hand, you know, handwritten stuff in your portfolio, and you hate doing it, that’s usually what you end up getting hired to do. And you’ll be like, “oh, man, why’d I do this?” So, I think part of it is kind of, again, figuring out what you’re interested in, but also what you’re not interested in. So you can be more targeted yourself.
Marius Valdes
I also feel like when you’re in college, and you’re graduating, if you’re young, and you don’t have any, if you can try and come out of college without any credit card debt or student loans, and you have nothing, like, no baggage, go to a big city and work if you can, because it’s a bigger market, you’ll have more opportunity, it’s faster paced, it’ll make you better, because you’ll be competing against a lot of other people and you’ll be working a lot harder. So that if you are from a town like Charleston, or Columbia, when you come back, you’ll be heads and shoulders better than everybody else, because you’re used to working in those bigger markets. And I also tell students to like, if you’re sending out emails and cold calling people with email, sometimes it helps to have a really nice piece that you can mail, because people love getting cool things in the mail. If you’re looking at a very specific city, you can always email art directors and tell them you’re coming to visit that city for a week, and you would love to meet with them while you’re in town. And sometimes just stopping by place and letting people see you in person and see that you’re a normal, nice person. Or maybe you’re an abnormal person, they like that too, you know? I mean, sometimes just going and introducing yourself, the person sits behind that front desk, they have a lot of power, because they can reach back to the creative director and say, “hey, you know, this guy Marius came by here today. And he was, he was so polite and so nice. He would be a good fit here.” You know? Sometimes that can be the thing that makes a difference, versus just sending a PDF to someone saying, “Hey, here’s my stuff. I just graduated, let me know,” you know.
Marius Valdes
And lastly, once you graduate, you have your student portfolio. You should be working immediately to try and replace student work with real work. So if you’re doing if you find an organization, or nonprofits that you’re really interested in, maybe it’s like maybe you’re someone who’s really into cats and dogs, well maybe go to your local SPCA and offer to do a poster for them. If they’ll print it, you’ll trade design services for them doing that, then you can replace one of your student projects with a real project. And I think the more you start building that up, the better it is.
Marius Valdes
And then the last thing I’ll say, this is the advice I would tell myself, if I could go back in time: be patient, finding a job is, sometimes it’s the market, sometimes its timing, is just like, you know, you just never know what the elements of finding that right job are at the moment. It could be someone is going on maternity leave, and they need someone to fill in for six months. And you just happen to, they just happen to get your resume that day, you know that that literally happened to me. So it’s it’s about being patient and not looking at your classmates or your friends and seeing “Oh, man, so-and-so is going to work for Google and so-and-so’s going to work for this agency, and I’m, I just can’t find a job.” It’s going to take a little time for some people. And you just have to be persistent, and again, disciplined. Maybe you get a job waiting tables at night so you have your days open so you can go interview or do freelance work. Or maybe you just get your dream job right out of college that happens too you know?
Emma Plutnicki
That’s great advice, thank you. And just overall, is there anything else you’d like to add?
Marius Valdes
I mean, I think college and working is the same thing. It’s you get what you kind of put into it. So I think, I think you just got to get started. Like, that’s really something someone told me is just like, I remember, like, I got off for my first job out of college. The Cartoon Network thing didn’t work out, so I moved to Charlotte. And the girl I was dating at the time, she got this amazing job making really good money and doing awesome, like, client work. And I got offered this really boring job making like, you know, almost half what she was making. I remember one of my teachers just saying, “dude, just get started.” And it’s so true. Once you just kind of get into the field, that first job is kind of like a fifth year of college. You learn more, you kind of, you start to get better at things. And once you’re in a job, it’s easy to find another job, you know? And you will be amazed and students will be amazed what life is like when you don’t have homework. You have so much more time, like spare time, that you won’t know what to do with yourself. My first year out of college, I was like the healthiest I ever was in my life, because I would get home from work and be so bored. I would just go for like a two hour walk with my dog, you know, and then come home and like read, and like paint, and like, I mean, I had so much spare time outside of the nine to five thing and it was great, you know, it was really, really nice. So I guess that’d be my last little bit of advice.
Emma Plutnicki
Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
