Tag: Art Therapy

  • Kelley Pettibone

    Kelley Pettibone

    Interview

    Transcript 

    00:00 Victoria Bartolotto

    Hello, everybody.

    My name is Victoria, and today we are talking with Kelly Pettibone, a professional creative working from and within South Carolina.

    As we get started, can you tell us about your current career and where you are currently located?

    00:14 Kelley Pettibone

    Yeah, I live in Columbia, South Carolina, and I am an educator. I teach for the School of Visual Art and Design at the University of South Carolina in Columbia.

    As an artist, as a working artist, I mainly am a printmaker, but also mixed media artist and sculptor. I’m a mom and a dog mom. I’m a wife and my husband is a retired Army veteran and a disabled veteran.

    So, I wear many hats. I do a lot of different things.

    00:50 Victoria Bartolotto

    Okay. Before we get into the nitty gritty details of being a professional educator, but also a studio artist, we have a brief section of our interview called “One Career, Sixty Seconds,” where you give an elevator style pitch about what your work is and how it kind of functions. Are you ready?

    01:08 Kelley Pettibone

    I’m ready.

    01:08 Victoria Bartolotto

    Okay, you can go ahead.

    01:11 Kelley Pettibone

    All right. Primarily printmaking and mixed media collage art, I focus mainly on grief. That’s the nature of my art. My art was born in grief as a therapy for myself. I look to my studio as a way to heal myself and work through my grief. That has blossomed now into more of a joyful space.

    I also work sculpturally. I entertain the idea of home and what home means to me in the essence of losing my entire family in a decade of time. That is kind of where all my body of work began and where it has continued to grow, through living with that grief rather than living in grief. I love to do art as therapy, but it’s become so much more.

    02:05 Victoria Bartolotto

    Wow. I know art speaks to a lot of people and with that being your main focus, is there anything about South Carolina in particular that brings, in addition to your family and the grief that you experienced, does the state or your particular region or the city of Columbia bring anything to your art as well?

    02:25 Kelley Pettibone

    It does. My father passed away of leukemia, and he was treated at the MUSC Center in Charleston. My parents lived for a while down across the street from the Folly Beach Pier in Folly Beach. That’s where he was getting treatment. I used repurposed wood when they rebuilt the Folly Beach Pier. I was able to get a lot of that wood.

    I use that in my sculptural work because of the place and it’s from Folly Beach. It’s significant to South Carolina in the region.

    03:07 Victoria Bartolotto

    So that project with the reclaimed wood is just one of many. Is there another project in particular that had an impact on your creative journey as well?

    03:17 Kelley Pettibone

    Absolutely. In working with my mother, she passed away in 2018 on Mother’s Day, so May has been a big month for me. I had all of her clothing after she passed away. No one tells you what to do with people’s stuff. You have to make these rough decisions.

    As a printmaker, I needed paper. And so, I took her cotton clothing and pulped it and turned it into paper. That was a significant experience in learning to let go of things, but repurposing it into something that’s going to be useful for me in my art practice.

    I have now started a whole new series of handmade paper using four generations of denim. It’s my grandmother’s, my mother’s, mine, and my daughter’s blue jeans. So all denim. So, I have quite the denim pulp happening at the moment.

    Things like that, learning how to let things go, but then repurposing it into something else within your art and giving it a new space and then sending it out in the world to exhibit or wherever it ends up. It’s kind of cool and fascinating.

    04:31 Victoria Bartolotto

    Before entering becoming a studio artist full-time and obviously with teaching and things like that, did you have any fears about pursuing studio art as a full-time job? Was there anything that kept you back from maybe pursuing that as a source of income? If there was, what might have inspired you to continue beyond it?

    04:58 Kelley Pettibone

    Right now, I’m entertaining the idea of, and I haven’t yet, and only because I’ve been holding back. I wasn’t ready to pull the plug yet on it, but I want to join like art events as a vendor to sell art outside of a gallery environment, but in like an art fair and community events.

    I want to do that in terms of like the capitalism side of selling my art, but I work to fund my art. That’s kind of why, being an educator and getting that check from being an educator helps fund my studio passion and my art helps me buy more materials so that I can do that.

    Well, now I’m at a point where I have a lot of art and I need to get rid of it. I’m running out of space. So now I’m at the point where how do I sell this and how do I do both? How do I make money being an educator as well as making money being a studio artist? It’s great I can make it, but now I need to figure out selling it.

    06:12 Victoria Bartolotto

    Can you talk a little bit about the gallery experience and how a student who might be wanting to pursue becoming a studio artist or have their art exhibited in a gallery? Can you talk a little bit about that and how that works?

    06:26 Kelley Pettibone

    Yeah, it’s a full-time job in and of itself. I’m trying to find open calls, who’s looking for work, for what type of work, making sure that your work fits in that space. My work, because it’s grief in nature, doesn’t fit in a lot of places. So, you kind of have to pick and choose.

    Also, if it’s sculptural art, it might be an environment where there are a lot of traffic. Maybe sculpture isn’t okay to say show in a bookstore where there’s going to be children and families and things like that.

    So, you kind of have to know the gallery or do your homework and research the places. But it’s a lot of time spent on the computer. It’s a lot of administrative type work in the looking, but also in the applying. I had someone tell me one time, “if you haven’t collected a box of nos, then you haven’t made it yet as an artist.” Throwing all the pasta at the wall and seeing what sticks, basically.

    You have to be okay with being told no. I’ve applied and reapplied at places, I’ve been told no and then reapplied, and then I’ve been told yes with the same body of work. So maybe it’s just not the right time, but maybe later. And I’ve been told no, not this year, but next year, and that’s okay. You can put it on a back burner for next year.

    Planning ahead and keeping a good calendar of what you have going on and what you have applied where, so you don’t overbook or double book your work. Last thing you want to do is have this body of work in one gallery and then you’ve promised another space the same images or the same pieces.

    So being a good juggler and a good manager but also being good administratively and researching.

    08:27 Victoria Bartolotto

    With the different types of mediums that you work with, do you approach each one through the lens of grief, or are there different lenses that you approach the different mediums through?

    08:40 Kelley Pettibone

    I kind of always seem to fall into that vein because it is so therapeutic for me. But when I work with printmaking, mainly I’m a woodcut printmaker and so I carve wood and carving is meditative, but it’s also very mindful.

    I have to be present while I’m carving because one carve and now it’s gone and I can’t get it back. So, you have to be fully present and fully mindful of what you’re doing in that.

    But whenever I am, say, mixed media collage or painting, it’s more playful and it’s more joyful and I can dance around and listen to music while I’m working, and I don’t have to necessarily be as mindful with that. And it is more of a playful in nature process for me and also very impromptu.

    When I am working in printmaking, it’s very planned and it’s very organized. I have to have an idea of where it’s going, or it’ll fall apart quickly. With collage, it’s very throw it all up in the air and see where it lands. And then if I don’t like it, just cover it up with paint, you know? So, it’s not a lot of planning at all, if any. I might start with a color story and that’s about the extent of the planning on that.

    But with sculpture, also, it’s more mindful. I have to kind of have an idea of what I’m going for and then sculpt it out. But it also can be more playful than the printmaking for me. So, I kind of go back and forth between the two or three or four. I might have three or four things going on.

    And when I’m tired of being present and I’m tired of being mindful, then I might say, “okay, it’s time to play.” Then I’ll go do something else that feels more playful for a while.

    10:34 Victoria Bartolotto

    It seems like there’s a good balance that you have.

    10:36 Kelley Pettibone

    Yeah, I try. I try to, and I don’t know if maybe it’s the ADD or the ADHD in me that I can’t sit still for very long. So, I have to kind of hop around in both process and in my pieces. I get bored with something for very long. And so, I can only sit here for a few hours and then I gotta, oh, I gotta go do something else.

    11:01 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah.

    11:02 Kelley Pettibone

    Seasonally, I’m like that in my own house too. Like I change around spaces and I change around things. I just get tired of it after a while and I have to do something different and freshen it up.

    11:14 Victoria Bartolotto

    Do you have any advice for young students, particularly like high school or freshmen in college who might want to pursue studio art and multimedia art as a profession? Do you have any advice? Are there any particular skills that they should have or a mindset they should go into it with?

    11:32 Kelley Pettibone

    The only real advice that I have after having taught studio art for a while is that I have a lot of students. The very first thing they’ll say at the beginning of the semester is, “I don’t know how to do this very well” or “I’m not a good drawer” or, you know, “I can’t draw” or “I can’t do this”. Nobody does when you begin.

    I didn’t even know of printmaking or like my idea of printmaking was making posters or t-shirts. I had no idea, and everyone starts somewhere. And don’t be afraid to learn and play and allow yourself to play because through play is when you learn what works well and what doesn’t work well.

    But also, I think my greatest advice, because I started as a biology anatomy major. That’s a heck of an adjustment. But I spent a lot of time and a lot of money in classes that didn’t translate over to studio art.

    But don’t spin your wheels and waste your time doing something because it’s what you feel like you ought to do. Or like, “I had an uncle that was a biologist. I should study biology.” No, you should not. You should admire your uncle for being that and what he was and his hard work. But if that is not innately you, that is not what you should do.

    And I feel like everyone should follow their passion. And if the world were full of people that were passionate about what they do every day, imagine the space we’d live in. I mean, it’d be different.

    13:21 Victoria Bartolotto

    It would be so different.

    13:23 Kelley Pettibone

    Everyone waiting to take your order would be so happy you’re here. “My pleasure,” everywhere. If it was like that, it would be wonderful. And I feel like that if making art is your passion, you’ll find a way. Everything else will fall into space. The money will come. All the questions will get answered. You will find a way to make it work if that is what your passion is.

    If it’s not what your passion is, then that’s gonna be a struggle bus. But if it is what you’re passionate about, then you will find a way. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. But definitely don’t do something because — I have a lot of students that are in my class, classes, studio art classes, and I’ll say, “what’s your major?” “Math.” “Why? Do you like your major?”

    And they’ll say, “well, I really wish that I was a studio art major, but–” and I’m like, “why aren’t you a studio art major?”

    And then they’ll say, “well, because I can’t make money at that, because my dad said I can’t make money at that.”

    Well, you can, make money at that. As a matter of fact, I have artist friends that sell art for the price of cars, houses. You can make money at that, but you have to decide how much you’re willing to sacrifice to make that happen in the beginning to make that money in the end. Passion is where it lies and do from the get-go what you are passionate about doing rather than having a 25-year college plan like I did before you finish up.

    15:20 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah, no, I can totally sympathize with that because I graduated with an English degree. And a lot of people come up to me and they’re like, “oh, what do you want to do with an English degree? Do you want to be a teacher?” And while teaching is an amazing profession, it is not for me. And I’m like, “oh, no, I want to be an author. I really want to write books.” And they’ll be like, “Authors don’t make any money. You won’t make any money.” It’s just like, well, I have a vision. I have a plan. I want to make it work. And so, I can totally sympathize with that kind of mindset, for sure.

    15:55 Kelley Pettibone

    I remember specifically coming home after I had discovered, I was in clinicals, and I was going through all of my notes. I had tons of notebooks full of all anatomy stuff. And I was going through all my notebooks, and I realized that all my notes were drawings. I draw all my notes rather than write notes. I have pictorial notes.

    And all my notes were mainly drawings of like body parts and like the human body and its inner workings. And I thought, “I’m an artist”. That’s what I am. I don’t want to be stuck in a lab for the rest of my life.

    There’s no creativity in that, and like you feel about teachers. That’s a life for somebody, but that is not the life for me. That is not what I want to do. We need those people, but that is not my jimmy jam. I went home and I told my parents, I remember I was not living at home at the time, but I told them one night over dinner, I said, “I’ve decided that I’m gonna change my major.”

    And both of them were like, “what?” And I said, “I’m going to art school.” And I remember my dad, who was a chemical engineer, he said, “How are you going to support yourself being an artist? Like you’re going to be one of those people that sit on the side of the road and tries to sell art out of your trunk. Like, how are you going to do that?” And I was like, “I don’t know if I haven’t figured it out yet, but I will.”

    And my mom, she was always so supportive and she was like, “Well, I know you’ll do it, and you’ll do great because you’ve been drawing since you were like 2. So, I think you’re going to be fantastic. Like maybe you can make Hallmark cards.” That’s what she said.

    17:43 Victoria Bartolotto

    That’s what my mom said, too! She was like, “You can write for Hallmark.” And I was like, “I don’t know, maybe?”

    17:49 Kelley Pettibone

    You write it; I’ll make it comical. There we go! It’s a collaboration.

    I just remember them thinking, “How are you gonna do this?” But my mom being very supportive, but also she couldn’t support you forever. I know now, once I figured out that I do love teaching, I love teaching, I love creating artists. That’s like my thing.

    Like, I believe everybody is an artist. You’re an artist. You’re an artist of words.

    18:25 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah.

    18:25 Kelley Pettibone

    We’re all artists in our own way. You don’t necessarily have to be a painter or a sculptor. We all have a gift and that’s an art. Being able to write is an art. You’re in the literary arts. I couldn’t write a book. Maybe I don’t know. But I have written poems and poetry. So, it’s all an art and we’re all creatives in some way.

    I feel like being a teacher is kind of the vein where I fell into and creating and encouraging students to follow their passion is like right where I belong.

    And that funding my art, you know, my independent art as a fine artist, as a studio artist, that’s necessary. But also having a creative space for me is necessary. My grandmother used to say, “Idle hands are a devil’s workshop.” And that’s true. Like I cannot not create. That’s essential for me. It’s essential to get all of these feelings and all of these thoughts out.

    If it becomes a whole body of work that gets shown in an exhibition, if it touches somebody, even if just one person, job well done, you know?

    19:51 Victoria Bartolotto

    Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I sincerely appreciate it.

    19:59 Kelley Pettibone

    Enjoy your summer and congratulations to you.

    20:01 Victoria Bartolotto

    Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I hope you have a lovely day.

    20:04 Kelley Pettibone

    All right, you too.

  • Katie Hinson Sullivan

    Katie Hinson Sullivan

    “Art has been a language to me that made sense throughout my life.”

    Katie Hinson Sullivan is an Art Therapist and program director of the Arts and Healing program at MUSC Health in Charleston, SC. She holds a degree in Studio Art and Psychology from the College of Charleston and a Masters in Art Therapy from New York.

    Interview

    Transcript

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  00:00 

    My name is Katie Hinson Sullivan. I am a board certified and registered art therapist and I am from Charleston, South Carolina; I actually moved to New York to get my masters to become an art therapist, and I worked in New York for 10 years as an art therapist and then moved back about six years ago and started the arts and healing program here at MUSC. 

    So, we started Arts and Healing in 2018. And it started off with as a very small program, I think the CEO initially here wanted to create some kind of art program, he didn’t know what that was, he was thinking more of art on the walls, but hiring an art therapist, I kind of went in the more clinical evidence-based direction and started a Creative Arts Therapy Department here, which is… art therapy is actually a mental health field. A lot of people can misunderstand that as kind of an educational field, but it’s not, we’re not teaching any kind of art activities. We are using art in a way to impact the health and well-being of patients from children to you know, end of life. Essentially, I have worked in a number of different populations. I’ve worked with vets; I’ve worked with children of abuse and neglect. I actually worked at Rikers Island in New York for three years working with the incarcerated because when words are really hard to find, or really unsafe to use, I think art therapy has a really important place for those types of people, especially the underserved populations out there, which is kind of where my heart lies. 

    But when MUSC Arts and Healing was created, we started with just one art therapist and one music therapist and doing work within the palliative care space with both adults and children, and that just exploded. I think people quickly saw the impact of having that kind of holistic approach in the hospital. Counselors and therapists don’t typically work within hospital spaces. It’s generally, you know, just like a psych eval, but people are going through a lot of things. And we have people that stay here for years sometimes in the hospital, which is really sad, or family members are just experiencing a big loss. So, losing a family member happens often here in the hospital, so we work directly with patients and family members as well. So, we now have three art therapists and four music therapists working at MUSC. Music therapy is a separate field. Music therapists focus on functional goals. If you like, I can connect you to a music therapist as well. But it’s a completely different field than art therapy. 

    Yeah, so that’s kind of us in a nutshell, in the inpatient world. We’ve also expanded with the help of the South Carolina Arts Commission to be in our school systems across the state, which is like the most exciting work ever, especially after COVID-19. Kiddos are very isolated; they really struggle socially. I think anxiety really just took off. We wrote a grant to get funding, a little funding for this to start things off before partnering with the South Carolina Arts Commission, because we were seeing an increase in our emergency room with kiddos having suicidal ideation or just feeling completely overwhelmed and having mental health crises. So, the best place to reach our kids is in schools, especially with those who are underserved and don’t have access to mental health care. So that was our main goal. So, we started pushing into schools using art therapy two years ago. And again, we’ve expanded to four districts. Thank goodness to the South Carolina Arts Commission for helping that work along. 

    We’ve been in the school system, and we’re pushing into underserved populations as well within our community. So, we’re working with an addiction agency and working with their clientele. We’re working at an assisted living facility, we’re actually doing art therapy with the blind and visually impaired in partnership with the South Carolina Arts Commission, we’re actually pushing into a children’s group home and also working with foster care families as well. And then a myriad of other populations. It’s kind of expanded to very diverse settings. But yeah, that is where we are at – MUSC.  

    Emma Plutnicki  03:59 

    How long have you been there and doing the show? And what’s your official job title?  

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  04:04 

    So, I’m the leader of the Arts and Healing department and I started the program in 2018. 

    Emma Plutnicki  04:08 

    Okay, perfect. And so, what kind of background, like, led you down this path? How did you end up doing what you’re doing now? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  04:16 

    Yeah, I’ve been asked that question before. I was a kiddo who actually had open heart surgery here at MUSC Health when I was five. And I think, throughout my life, I had an art teacher as a mother, so I think she always just put materials out and that was my way of expressing myself when I was very young. So, art was just kind of a language to me, so it made sense throughout my life. I didn’t know what that equated to. I was actually going to the College of Charleston, I was majoring in psychology and just taking art classes on the side because it was like my interest, just growing up doing it. And I had a professor my senior year at College of Charleston, and I didn’t know what the heck I wanted to do, but she was kind of like, you understand that there is an actual profession that kind of blends your two interests, psychology and art. So, I looked into it and then started applying to schools. You have to have a master’s degree to become an art therapist, just to get training. And then there’s a whole myriad of board certification tests, all this and collecting hours in front of patients just like any other mental health field. But yeah, in my senior year, I decided to become an art therapist. I really didn’t have any idea what that was until I got into it. And just, it just makes so much sense to me, just given my history, I think.  

    Emma Plutnicki  05:28 

    Yeah, amazing. So, on a day-to-day basis, are you going to schools and teaching the kids, or what does your day-to-day look like?  

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  05:38 

    Yeah, so, I am more on the administrator’s side. Now, I can speak about what that looked like when I was an active therapist. But my day today is really building programming, really thinking strategically about how we can build sustainable programming and these spaces that don’t have access to care. I am doing a research study currently in the hospital. So, I’m working with pediatric patients who have just had a bone marrow transplant, which is a really tough procedure to go through. So, I’m working on a study that is looking at whether or not art therapy helps young people be discharged quicker. I’m working alongside PT (physical therapy) so if children receive art therapy before PT, does it make them, essentially does it help them to engage in their services a little longer, or more readily, because as we know, if a kiddo going through BMT is compliant with their physical therapy they can be discharged a lot quicker. So just providing that support, assisting them. 

    Emma Plutnicki  06:51 

    Has there been one project that has stood out to you over the years, that was the pinnacle of your creativity, or just had a significant impact on you? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  07:02 

    Yeah, I think my work at Rikers was the most impactful work I did. Actually, my job before that, I worked at HeartShare human services before that in New York, and it was an agency, it was called a preventive agency. So, child abuse cases would come through the city, and then we would be contracted to provide support for those families. I worked with the entire family. I think that just allowed me to get every type of issue or struggle that a family was going through, and whether that was child abuse or neglect, that really gave me a very dynamic view of the world, I think. As a new therapist, I worked there for five years. And then I think that kind of led me to my position at Rikers. I answered a cryptic job posting about a mental health clinician wanted, and luckily, I got the job. And I mean, it was really intense. As people know, Rikers Island is very known for being a really scary place and giving inmates a voice or helping them process what was going on. I mean, there’s so many layers in jails, right, like just who we incarcerate and why we incarcerate them. But allowing them the space to have support in a really scary time, was really impactful to me.  

    Then I fought to work in the women’s jail. There are over 10,000 inmates on that island, and only about 1500 Women were in the jail at the time. And they were receiving little to no services because the men were just, you know, they were having a lot more issues and like code reds throughout the days. And women, a lot of them have children at home. And they were trying to get through their time at Rikers, to find out what the outcome of their sentencing was, et cetera. So very impactful work for me gave me a very different view of the world.  

    Emma Plutnicki  8:51 

    Wow, that’s incredible. 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  8:53 

    Yeah, a bigger view of the world. I mean, it was really impactful. And the women were so strong. 

    Emma Plutnicki  08:58 

    Wow. That’s amazing. So, has it been challenging, like the work itself, and also the way that you got into this career path? Was that challenging to find and kind of get your foot into the door? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  09:09 

    It’s very challenging in our state to become an art therapist. There are no grad schools here, and you have to have a master’s degree to become an art therapist. There are some online schools. And I didn’t know what the field was like; I didn’t even know that it existed. I had a professor that was from New York, where it, you know, obviously mental health is a little more accessible in another state. In South Carolina, not only am I a mental health clinician, but I’m an art therapist, which, you know, I think is a double whammy. We don’t have licensure in our state yet. We’re pushing hard for licensure. So, I think that’s a challenge, but we’re doing it. In 2018, I think there were 39 art therapists throughout the entire state. Right now, we are sitting at like 62 therapists, so within a few years, it’s really grown, which is crazy. Then we have a bunch of interns that are working with our program and then just people are flocking to the state because we now have the opportunity for art therapists to work. It is challenging here in South Carolina, in New York; it was not a challenge. There was a huge community of art therapists that were great and wonderful to work with. And there were jobs available and all of that. But South Carolina is really moving along. I have high hopes for the next few years, for sure. 

    Emma Plutnicki  10:19 

    Yeah. And within South Carolina, do you know if there’s any like programs or events or organizations that kind of allow people to network or meet or find out more about a field as an art therapist? Are there any like organizations or anything? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  10:33 

    Yeah, the South Carolina Association for Art Therapists, our state organization. I’m actually the treasurer and have been a past president for that organization. They’re great. We’re small, but I think anybody who’s interested in the field of art therapy, please just get in touch with a licensed or credentialed art therapist to ask about what the field looks like, there’s a lot of art therapists out there that are claiming to be art therapists in our state, because there’s not, I think there’s just a lack of understanding of what it is. But if you’re interested in the field of art therapy, get in touch with me, get in touch with somebody who has an ATR behind their name. That’s the credential to be an art therapist and ask questions. There are online programs to become an art therapist. There are internships available across the state, the association is happy to connect people, or I am happy to connect anybody and/or just have a conversation with people about what the field entails. 

    Emma Plutnicki  11:30 

    As an applicant, are there any specific skills that you think would be beneficial to have? If you were hiring somebody and saw, “Oh, this applicant has this skill, this skill, this skill, they’re good,” or any skills that you have or use on a daily basis that you find come in handy? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  11:44 

    Yeah, they would have to have their training and their credentials to become an applicable applicant. And for any job with us, I think just, I mean, art therapists, you have to be interested in the mental health field, right? And you also, I think, artists just generally are more or are a little empathetic to the world around them, you know. It’s a hard job. Because you’re, I mean, it is mental health, and you’re just hearing trauma and dealing with trauma. And as an art therapist, I think you get to those spaces a little quicker, because you have this process and product that you’re doing with a client or a patient, in that therapeutic space, but I think skill sets would be – A: that they’ve been through their training, B: that they’ve been willing to do the work personally. 

    So, I think any art therapist who’s, you know, been in therapy, or you know, has a good idea of where they end and where a client begins. That’s always a good trait to have as a therapist. To experience therapy yourself, as a therapist, I think it is really important. And just willingness to learn. I feel like even, you know, well into my career, I’m still getting supervision myself, and still learning from others. And I think just always being open to growing. And then also having your own art making on the side, you have to have a place to dump all this stuff, right. I think art is why we became art therapists, right? Or why people become art therapists because they believe in that process of art making. So also, applicants, one of the questions I always ask is, how do you take care of yourself? Do you do anything creative on the side? That is, I think, just a really important piece of that creative outlet as well. 

    Emma Plutnicki  13:25 

    So just as we’re wrapping up, do you have any advice for someone who’s looking to get into the field? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  13:30 

    Just connect with an art therapist, ask them about possible programs they can go to, if they’re in South Carolina. Ask, you know, just talk through what you’re thinking because there’s so many different ways that art therapy is applicable. You can do art therapy in a museum, just you know, going into museums and maybe creating work based on what you’ve seen. There’s, there’s so many different directions an art therapist can go. But again, I think it just takes diving into training, like I said earlier, like I didn’t know what I was getting myself into as an art therapist until I actually got into the training itself. Also, if anybody ever wants to come and shadow an art therapist here at MUSC, we have that opportunity for people, if they’re kind of like, seeing whether or not they want to volunteer or want to come into the field like there are opportunities to shadow or volunteer with a program like ours. Yeah, just throwing that out there. 

    Emma Plutnicki  14:22 

    And then is there just anything else you’d like to add overall, any last thoughts? 

    Katie Hinson Sullivan  14:27 

    Not necessarily, if anybody wants to get in touch, I always do offer conversation. 

    Emma Plutnicki  14:35 

    Perfect.