Career Area: Studio Artist

  • Melanie McClellan-Hartnett

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett

    Interview

    Transcript

    Ryleigh Kelley  00:00 

    Hello, my name is Ryleigh, and today we are talking with Melanie McClellan-Hartnett, a professional creative working from and within South Carolina. So, as we get started, can you tell us your current career and where you’re from? 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  00:14 

    Sure, so I grew up in McClellanville, South Carolina, which is the same as my last name. There is a lot of my family there. It’s a very small town, and I did go to school elsewhere, and I’ve lived elsewhere, but that’s my roots, and that’s where I’ve been from most of my career, which has been wonderful.  

    I will always support, when you have a community behind you, no matter how small they are, that’s just a wonderful, wonderful resource. There’s just less, just not as many opportunities in a small place as there are in a city.  

    So, my husband and I are empty nesters now. I have some very wonderful mentors, who said, ‘We love you, you’re doing great work. You’ve got to get out of your zip code. Listen, you can come back. We want you to come back, but you need to be where you can connect with people easily, and that just happens more readily in a city.” You can walk into an art gallery, and you’ll bump into somebody you know. It’s just different. 

    I am in Charleston, South Carolina, right now, and everything is just blown open. It’s incredible. It’s been the best year, and I just want to encourage people to go out on that limb and see what can happen, and especially I think that we feel like we’re extra connected sometimes because of social media, which we can be.  

    My daughter is in Europe, and I get to see her face. I love that, but we miss out on some of the people connections, and you really miss out on what can happen organically when people just come together and it’s not planned or scheduled. Especially because art, whether it’s literary or visual or whatever, means whatever, it’s a larger vision.  

    When you can come together and connect with other people in that larger vision, you’re going to see stuff you never would have thought of before, and so coming to Charleston has been wonderful for me. I just started painting. My husband was in my studio yesterday, and he’s like, “You have three exhibits here.” Which is a lot, because I have one currently hanging, so really, before the paintings were like four exhibits, but it’s because I realized I was so lucky to be in such a pretty place. I always thought of 1920s Paris with the artists. God, I was jealous, and now I’m not jealous, because we have that. 

    You live in a beautiful place. You want to paint it? Do it. You want to draw it? Do it. You want to write about it? Do it, and don’t be afraid to just connect with people who are doing what they love. You don’t have to be a professional. I didn’t start out as a professional by any means. I thought I was going to be a writer.  

    “Melanie, you’re going to be doing oil paintings.” Okay, another life, maybe. I like oil paintings, but I was scared to try, and I think getting over that fear, meeting a lot of people, and so right now I have an exhibit, it’s at the Healing Gallery, which is on Queen Street, and everybody laughs at me, so like, “Of course, this is your solo exhibit,” my debut one.  

    You have to go down a little path between hedges, very hidden, private, covered in vines, just the house I moved from, but it’s the best vibe, and so it has twenty-two oil paintings in it that they’re all full of words and symbols, intentions, mantras, anything I’ve kind of wrangled out, but then I’ll paint it out, or sometimes I will inscribe it with a lit incense stick, so because I feel like if you’re doing that and then you’re using the other end to inscribe, it’s like a prayer.  

    It just puts me in the right place, and people are always like, “Well, how do you know when you’re done when you look at these very abstract paintings?” I think that’s a fair question. I say, “Because I’m struggling with things in the paintings, and so I don’t sign it until I find the light.” I think you can do that with anything.  

    So, with this show, I’m really excited. It posits that if you put positive intentions in something, and then you tell people, because I don’t want to be sneaky, if you tell people and they are open to it, and they want to look for that immediately, your brain triggers positive neurochemistry. It’s psychological priming. It doesn’t even matter if you believe in the metaphysics of what is written, your brain will automatically reward you. So, this show is about what could happen if we just start putting positive things in everything, because I’m tired of microplastics, and all that. If we have to live with all the negativity, we need to learn to do more. It has been amazing, seeing so many different kinds of people come in and just be open.  

    It’s a great experience, and I have found that I was a little nervous moving here because I was very comfortable where I was. I just turned fifty, and you don’t always make friends very quickly, and I don’t know how this is going to go. I have started getting to know artists around here, and they’re wonderful, and we’re doing things together; we’re doing cool things together.  

    I don’t know if this is a little repetitive, if it’s not, but I will say that one of the biggest things that helped me coming to Charleston was somebody connected me with Beeple Studios, and they are so great about supporting artists and connecting artists. I’ve met a bunch of artists through that, and it’s like when you have somebody who’s willing to put that kind of support in, it’s fantastic.  

    Ryleigh Kelley  06:41 

    Yeah, absolutely. Community is so important, and I’m happy to hear that you’re finding that in Charleston, because you’re in your comfort zone for a while. It’s like you feel that peace and security, and then when that change comes, it can be scary, but it sounds like that it’s doing just wonders right now.  

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  07:05 

    It’s wonderful. I am working on the poster, or a competition for the poster for the 2027 Cooper River Bridge Run. I pretty much try to die then after a run, which is not my fate at all, but I have started entering more community competitions like that, because somebody wins, so why not try?  

    Also, I find it makes me really value things about my community, because you have to think about it, if you’re going to do something, have your vision, then you have to really engage with it, and it helps you value what’s there. I’ve started doing more little things like that, because those are all opportunities when you see things like that, I think a lot of artists think, “That’s not ‘angsty’ enough.”  

    Ryleigh Kelley 08:08 

    Yeah, the tortured artist aesthetic. 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  08:10 

    Or serious, or whatever, and I get that, obviously, I want to do serious stuff. When you are forced to think about things through your medium, but they’re different things, that’s great. People [Studios], when he has live painting events, I’ve been lucky enough to paint at two of them. The first one was about crypto punks. I didn’t even know what they were. I had to learn about them. 

    That was fascinating. And then the second one was the future of art, which I was like, well, that’ll be the future of humanity. And for a moment, I was like, “that sounds kind of bleak.” And then I was like, “no, wait a minute, let’s think.” They say we’ll be living on Mars. And so, I spent three months studying Mars. It’s so cool. 

    Do I think that we should solve stuff here first? Heck yeah, but it’s great to give your mind new frontiers. New challenges. It doesn’t matter if it’s not your subject matter. I guess that’s kind of my point. It’s like take that risk, try it, it doesn’t have to define you. 

    Ryleigh Kelley  09:27 

    Yeah, and also, too, it gets into this aspect of play and art, and I love how you’re leaning into that. You said, there could be positivity, there could be play and I love that you explore that. 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  09:48 

    Well, I feel like people need to tell artists that, because we need permission to be humans, and also we need ease. But I don’t know, one of my artist friends, actually, she’s the one that she’s from Japan, and she gave me this little guy, and one day we’re having a show in Japan, so I always wear this to all my art stuff, because it’s like a promise that we’re gonna be that.  

    But she is like one of those ‘extremely talented when you sit next to her’ people, and she told me that my gift to her was teaching her to make art without rules, which there are obvious rules like you can’t put acrylic over oil, like there’s things, yes, you have to pay attention to– 

    Ryleigh Kelley  10:34 

    Yeah, the practical, I guess, yeah. 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  10:37 

    Right. Like, the physics rules, the chemical rules, but the people rules? No, that’s like one of the coolest things about being an artist is my job is to question why those are rules, and think about it,  

    Picasso is a mixed bag for me. Sometimes I don’t want to know about people’s personal lives, people are people, but he said to, “Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” That is my favorite art quote. That is exactly what you need to do, because you want your work to stand up, but you also don’t want, I mean, if it’s your vision, nobody else can tell you how to do it.  

    I mean, I get our mentors who can say, “Hey, you could do this better.” One thing I did when I moved to Charleston, I joined the Redux Art Gallery, does figure drawing on Sunday nights. It’s expensive, and it’s just a great vibe, and all my lines immediately improved. I never draw naked people, but the human body is very, very beautiful, and if you can draw it, you can draw anything, and being around more artists who are just that’s all there, everyone’s just following their vision.  

    Then you’ll find, “Hey, I’m using this too, or I’ve been thinking about whatever.” I love it, especially, if it’s someone from another country, and you’ll meet, you’ll be playing with some of the very same things, and not from social media. Usually I don’t do a lot of scrolling while I’m thinking about stuff, because I’m afraid of it being too much. I’ll do it after I have an idea, because then I want to see what kind of variations there are, but I, but I think it’s really cool when you’re like, “oh my god, we’re all leaning into something so much bigger.” That’s so cool. 

    Ryleigh Kelley  12:43 

    Yeah, yeah, and especially, too, I love how you talk about that temptation to scroll on social media when you get an idea, because it fulfills our curiosity a little bit, but it’s that fine line of, okay, when it gets too much, and then you lose the idea. Finding and striking that balance in everything.  

    I kind of want to talk a little bit more about, what you just said about how even you’re meeting artists from different countries, and how you’re all collectively working to something kind of bigger, and I’m curious, you kind of already talked about this, but is there anything South Carolina, or maybe even your hometown, or Charleston, in particular, brings to your work, and does it have a unique influence on you compared to people in the same profession in different states, or even different countries? 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  13:42 

    I might be too small to answer that.  I think that water is a huge part. I’m living in downtown Charleston. We feel flooding all the time. Also, where I grew up, McClellanville, South Carolina, was where Hurricane Hugo hit, which was devastating water. So, I’ve seen what water can do, and we know sea levels are rising. That is something – it’s not like everybody is painting water, but everybody’s talking about it.  

    Everybody’s talking about what kind of changes are we going to need to make, like architecturally, which, honestly, I don’t think that’s doom and gloom. I think that’s cool, because the world has been changing forever. That’s what it does. People have been adapting, that’s what we do, and that I honestly think is cool… like, I don’t know if you’ve ever read, they’re very old school, The Notebooks of Leonardo Da Vinci.  

    Ryleigh Kelley  14:53 

    I feel like I’ve heard of it, but I haven’t read it.  

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  14:55 

    Okay, just skim it, that’s all I’ve honestly done, because they’re dense. But they’re so cool, because science is such a part of art and social stuff. You’re studying all kinds of different stuff. I think it’s exciting, I feel like there are going to be answers made. I think an artist is not afraid to completely fantasize. We fantasize about making it big all the time, but also, well, what do you mean you can’t have a house made out of a sphere?  

    I can, I’m gonna make it work, and that’s a little bit of a jump. I’ve gotten really interested in the fact that MIT has all kinds of open-source courses that you can study. I know a lot of artists and people who are kind of interested, because that was not them in school, but now just want to know more about this. 

    I think the dynamics of where you live, for sure, and South Carolina – it’s really not just coastal South Carolina, because I saw a map the other day, and it was kind of scary, but it was also cool. It was like from space, showing how the currents were changing the coastline again. But okay, we’ll adapt, so however that looks, maybe it’s relocating, maybe it’s completely different housing.  

    When you’re an artist or a writer or a musician, all of that is an opportunity to discuss that and to think about different ways you could do it, and to not really have a budget, like when you’re trying to produce it. Yes, but in your head with your idea, it’s free, so it’s a lot less limits. 

    Ryleigh Kelley  16:55 

    Great sentiments about that too, especially with Charleston, how there’s this issue of rising sea levels. You kind of take as an opportunity to be like, “we need to adapt, like we’re going to adapt.” I love too, about architecture, and how that may change being an artist and the opportunity to be included in that discussion.  

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  17:24 

    If you include artists in that discussion, then they’ll think of something radical, and then the person who knows physics better will say, “But…” I do love all the steam education stuff they’re doing? It’s fantastic. It’s so holistic, and I know that they put that label on some things; they’re like, “Where are you getting that?” But honestly, any connection you can make, you don’t know where that’ll go. So, try it. 

    Ryleigh Kelley  17:57 

    Yeah, speaking of that, kind of little bit of words of advice. Do you have any advice for young adults or students that have an interest, in pursuing a similar career, in your world, in the creative world? And are there any just particular skills, not just like artistry, but like people skills, one should practice or have before stepping fully into this industry? 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  18:26 

    Artists are such a wide range of folks, you know? One thing that helped me become more professional, and because I was just working out of my laundry room-turned-studio, and then I ended up being the director at the McClellan Arts Council for a while, which was really cool, because that really connected me to the network that is in South Carolina. That’s where I saw Arts Commission, that’s where I saw the different universities coming together, and we did stuff with the Smithsonian.  

    That’s where you see people who just don’t know that you have all these resources, and so with that I think getting a working knowledge of the resources that are around you is invaluable. Also, I’ve done a lot of volunteer work with seniors and kids. I think the better your social skills are all across the board, like Queen Victoria said something about beware of artists, because they mix with all types of societies, so therefore they’re the most dangerous and good. 

    I think that that’s true, and I think that the more so, like social studies, a little bit of business sense. What I have done is find somebody who’s better at business than I am who I call my ‘business oracle.’ I think that’s fair, but you still want to have some idea of what the rules are, because I love her – she’s wonderful, but you can’t trust everybody. You need to know. You read stories about people with managers and things going wrong all the time, so get a mentor.  

    I love my mentors, and I think you should switch them up sometimes, because if you get a little too good, too connected, then it becomes more support, which is great, but you still need someone who will tell you if, “Nah, you’re going off kind of weird path, there.” So, get good mentors, and connect with your museums and your universities’ programs. They always need hands. They always need hands. If you’re good at that, doors will open. You’ll meet people.  

    We just had Piccolo and Spolito here in Charleston, and Marion Square is like one of my favorite places to get with all—I had a bunch of friends there. I do not have the stamina to stay in a tent for seventeen days in the heat, but I will come visit them when they do. I was really struck with; I don’t even know how they would do it, but this is such an opportunity for mentorship.  

    If you look at young artists who are just starting, or even not sure they want to do it, but they’re thinking about it, not for the whole time, just for a little bit of that time, it’d be so good for them because they need so much. This is going to sound kind of crazy, but most artists are doing food and bev[erage] anyway to pay their bills. I actually think that working food and bev[erage] was great, because you meet all kinds of people. You just don’t know where that’s going to go.  

    I did an arts program once where I specifically went and hired people from restaurants, because I knew a lot of creatives have that side. I wanted people who couldn’t do that full time, didn’t have room or resources to have it set up, but just still to do their work for a little bit, get into their groove. It was so cool, honestly, you could study anything in the whole wide world, but languages, social time, different age groups, and just plug into all the resources. There’s so many resources, I mean, goodness, and also– 

    Ryleigh Kelley  22:36 

    Emphasis on resources. 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  22:38 

    No, like really, but they can help each other so much, and you can get two for one. If people are working together, there’s so much money. Well, what if we can do more with it? You know, not trying to shortchange people, maybe that same person could get two benefits. 

    I was thinking down here every restaurant should adopt an artist, because they’re so hot out there. Like, name a drink after them, put one of their pieces, so many possibilities. 

    Ryleigh Kelley  23:13 

    Really, there really is. There really is. Yeah. We are running a little bit out of time, but thank you so much for just taking the time to speak with me, and I really appreciate all of your sentiments, and just for you talking and articulating about your experiences. I think this was a lovely, lovely conversation. 

    Melanie McClellan-Hartnett  23:37 

    You’ve been really awesome. Thank you so much. I don’t really like doing interviews, and you have just been so human. 

    Ryleigh Kelley  23:44 

    Well, thank you. That means a lot to me. 

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  • Jeannie Rounsefell

     “If you can’t go to sleep until you have done this thing, you will never rest easy. Be curious, challenge the world and yourself.”

    Quick Facts

    Education: Some elementary school in Aiken, SC; Self-taught

    Years of Experience: 40 Years

    About

    Jeannie Rounsefell started creating art out of necessity.  She was broke, young, a single mother, and had an urge inside of her to create something from her surroundings. Such objects were unlikely materials; unloved items and forgotten things other people had long given up on. 

    Forty years later, she calls herself a trash pirate (a compliment to her work). Jeannie’s creations are built on humor, irreverence, and a deep love for the absurd. She has a vast working knowledge of tools and processes, almost all of it earned through trial and error.  This knowledge establishes a vast pocket of problem-solving skills, to which she implements both into her practice every day.  

    As for her career, her whole philosophy is that she simply creates. Jeannie follows what interests her, works with what she discovers, and allows the material to speak for itself. It is a practice grounded in freedom and curiosity.  She supports herself with her making, which is what she intended and continues to do. For anyone wondering whether to start, her answer is short and clear: “Do it. If it keeps you up at night, you already know you have to.” 
     

  • Susan Lenz

    Susan Lenz

    “Get a timecard and track the number of hours actively spent making. Being creative is a skill that is improved through lots and lots of practice.” 

    Quick Facts

    Education: Undergraduate

    Years of Experience: 23 Years

    About

    Susan Lenz built her creative life in a familiar way to the arts: a little late, on her own terms, and with complete conviction. She was forty-two years old when she finally let herself say aloud what she wanted to be: a fiber artist. 

    She rented a studio in a cooperative artist enclave. With no formal degree program and no one to guide her through a process, Susan taught herself everything she needed to work professionally. She figured it out by doing, logging the hours, and treating the crafting process as her full-time job. 

    What she makes is entirely her own. Every piece is an original, born from a threaded needle, an object, and a specific way of seeing the world. For over two decades, she has built a full working practice of gallery representation, commissions, teaching workshops, and a daily studio habit that has never ceased throughout her artistic journey. 

    Her advice to anyone starting is to be practical and direct as “being creative is a skill that is improved through lots and lots of practice.” Track the hours. Treat the making like work, because it is work. Creativity is not something to either have or not. It is a skill, and like any other, it only gets better with more time and care invested into it. 

  • C. Michelle Bryant Griffin

    C. Michelle Bryant Griffin

    “Be your unique self, and let the world catch up.” 

    Quick Facts

    Level of Education: A.C. Flora High School (Columbia); attended 27 schools across 12 years; some college 

    Years of Experience: 40+ Years

    About

    C. Michelle Bryant Griffin is an artist, author, and entrepreneur based in the Low Country of South Carolina who has spent more than four decades creating, building, and supporting others in doing the same. Her work today centers on helping dreamers, doers, and entrepreneurs bring their visions to life, transforming ideas into brands that shine and make their mark on the world.  

    Her path into photography began during a divorce in her late fifties, born out of vulnerability and a desire to rebuild. As she photographed other women navigating similar turning points, she found herself collecting their remarkable, under-sung stories which deserved a wider audience. That impulse became a magazine with a global readership for over a decade, dedicated to showcasing the overlooked and the underestimated. When the pandemic reduced print circulation, she pivoted to a fully online practice. She launched Fabulous Business Solutions, a practice that blends strategy, design, and hands-on support for writers, artists, and entrepreneurs at every stage of their journey.  

    She expresses her love for her work, saying that “everything I do is done with 100% heart and passion, as if it were my own personal project.”  

    Michelle describes her abundance of talent as both a blessing and a challenge; the question of how much to use, and in which direction, is one she holds lightly. But the answer she keeps returning to is love. Everything she does, she does because she genuinely loves it. And for her, that has always been enough.  

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  • Winnifred Tataw

    Winnifred Tataw

    “Nurture your passion with persistence. Embrace the power of your unique voice, and remember that every story you tell is a bridge that unites us all. When we foster love and creativity, we create a world that thrives on connection and resilience. The world needs your art!” 

    Quick Facts

    Education: College of Charleston 

    Years of Experience: 15 Years of Experience

    About

    Winnifred Tataw is an author, artist, and book publisher based in the Low Country of South Carolina whose work is rooted in the belief that stories have the power to connect, inspire, and celebrate the full spectrum of human experience. As graduate of the College of Charleston with a background in Studio Art and Writing, she has spent fifteen years crafting work that blends personal narratives with universal truths, creating as she describes, “an inviting tapestry where every reader finds a piece of themselves.” 

    Her love for art and storytelling grew side by side from childhood, shaped by the joy of listening to her parents’ stories and the richness of her heritage. The two passions are so intertwined that she cannot say which came first, but both have always been essential. Remarkably, Winnifred began publishing her novels during her first year of college, setting an early tone for a creative life defined by courage and momentum. She notes that she aims to, “create stories and art that connect and inspire action while celebrating the beauty of the human journey.” 

    For emerging creatives, her message is both generous and clear: the world needs your art. Foster your love of craft with persistence, trust the distinctiveness of your voice, and understand that every story you tell is a bridge, one that unites people, builds resilience, and reminds us of our shared humanity. 

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  • Jim Craft

    “The importance of learning the craft, learning the principles and elements of art and design and really understanding how to apply them, cannot be overstated. Design theory ends up being the currency of whether or not you can develop a particular visual way of expressing yourself, whether it’s sculpture, ceramics, architecture or another field.” 

    Jim Craft, who lives in Greenville, was a studio artist for ten years and then transitioned to academia. He was a professor of art at North Greenville University for 16 years and then moved to West Palm Beach, Fla., teaching at Palm Beach Atlantic University for 10 years. He earned his B.A. and M.A. from Bob Jones University and his MFA at Clemson University. 

    Interview

    Transcript

    Jim Craft

    I’m Jim Craft, and I was a studio artist for 10 years self-supporting. And then I had three kids and a wife. And you know, I think the statistic is less than half a percent of people who actually get degrees in visual art actually ended up being artists; I think it might even be less than that by now. It’s a pretty narrow field, actually. But, you end up doing a lot of other things, you know, you can go into Applied Arts, graphic design, and stage design, and you know.

    Haley Hansen

    What did your path look like? What did you go into?

    Jim Craft

    Well, I had my degrees in painting and ceramics, and… but I also had education, degrees in education. So, which was fortunate, I guess, because then I, I got a job as a professor. Well, as an instructor, and then worked my way. And then, when I retired just a few years ago, five years ago, I was a full professor and was granted Professor Emeritus, which just means I can come back and teach if ever I want to. So that’s, that’s what I’ve, what I’ve done. I’ve actually spent most of my life in academia. When you teach, it demands all your time, way too much of your time, and your energy and resources. And…

    Haley Hansen

    Where were you a professor at?

    Jim Craft

    Well, I started out, well, first, I started out in public schools and taught two years of Elementary, two years of middle school, and two years of high school, and then I got a job at a little Baptist College in Upstate South Carolina. I just turned…

    Haley Hansen

    Which kind of Baptist College, I’m guessing Bob Jones.

    Jim Craft

    Now, actually, I got my undergraduate degree from Bob Jones and a Master’s, an M.A., from Bob Jones. And then I finished my graduate work at Clemson, but I got my first job as a professor at North Greenville University and taught there for 16 years. And then, I took a position down in West Palm Beach, Florida, for 10 years a little longer, actually, at Palm Beach Atlantic University, and sort of headed up the visual art program down there, department down there. And it was kind of a blast, you know, being down in Florida in mind that at all, but it was really fun having a studio and being an artist, you know, getting up every day and making stuff and doing exhibitions, shows, and things like that.

    Haley Hansen

    Was there ever one specific moment that made you realize you wanted to be a professional studio artist?

    Jim Craft

    Well, that was always, you know, the goal to be an artist, but it’s just not a realistic goal. I mean, even my friends who were wildly successful had to actually supplement their income with other things. And it’s good to have those kinds of things in your pocket. So, I wouldn’t ever discourage anybody from, you know, getting a degree in, you know, graphic design or advertising or any of the design areas, just because, well, you know, Andy Warhol was a graphic designer and musicians and composers actually did other things. But, it was always the goal to be just an artist. And that was kind of a blast. But it didn’t really take care of everything. Kids were getting bigger. And you know, everybody knows three kids and my wife. So, it was really four against, well, not against, but it was four votes against one vote. And so, I had to go get a job teaching. It’s not terrible. I didn’t mind teaching. It actually turned out, I was okay at it. All of my evaluations were good. It was always in the top percentile and got a number of awards and so on for teaching, because I didn’t mind teaching. I liked people. I like students, and interacting with them, and telling them the truth. And they didn’t always like me, but that’s okay. I guess my evaluations were…. had a big gap in the middle. There were those who really liked me and said I was the best professor they ever had. And there was a big gap in the middle. And then there were those that said, I was awful, and don’t ever take any courses from this man, because he’ll, he’ll make you work.

    Haley Hansen

    I had a couple of professors like that. Yeah.

    Jim Craft

    Yeah. Yeah, that’s actually a pretty good, you know, way too, like, let your evaluations fall. You don’t want a bunch in the middle, that just isn’t so great. That way, you kind of, like, you get students that maybe are a little more serious. Are you an art student?

    Haley Hansen

    I’m an English major.

    Jim Craft

    Well, and of course, I would always tell people, students, that you know, minor in education or English, because English is good. Because writing is always a valuable skill, it’s always a valuable skill no matter what you do, if you can write, and put together good, you know, sentences and presentations, and if you can read if you can know how to do research, if you actually understand what real research looks like, that will help you it really well, I taught a lot of art history. And a lot of our pre; I had to teach a lot of sections or at a pre all the time, but you know, I don’t miss grading all the, all the research papers, oh, my goodness. When they’d come in, I would have, I’d be gone for a week and a half. I just have to go through them all. And I can never give a student a bad grade, or even a good grade without telling them why, you know, I wanted them to know why they’re getting what they’re getting. Yeah, English is a good, a good minor. And I suppose there’s a number of other areas where you could minor and and that would be well advised. I think it’s probably healthy for students to know that being, being a learning the craft learning the, you know, the principles and elements of art and design. And really understanding how to apply them and not be understated design theory was always something that I think that it can’t really be undervalued. Because, that really ends up being the currency of, of whether or not you can develop a particular visual way of expressing yourself, whether it’s in, you know, sculpture, ceramics or architecture, whatever. They all, they all apply. All those principles and elements. They apply to every one of the arts. Whether, even if, you go into dance or theater, or any of that, it really doesn’t matter. They’re all very similar.

    Jim Craft

    In fact, I taught a number of courses on the integration of the principles and elements in… and it was teamed up with a dance and theater major, music professor and myself. And it’s all the same language. So all those, I think that’s really valuable because then I’ve had students that have ended up because they heard me, they ended up in, you know, retail and, and um, you know, selling in galleries or auction houses. Traveling internationally, even if you don’t necessarily have to end up in the studio to stay in the arts; I even had a student who ended up being a buyer internationally of fine rugs, and all over the Europe and North Africa, and the Middle East. And she was a painting person she was I mean, she learned the principles and now, so they all fit, it’s all still the same, whether you’re looking at a Persian rug, or if you’re looking at a really nice ceramic vessel, it’s all the same. And I never could quite figure that out. You know, people will say, Oh, this Van Gogh is, real art. But, this Song Dynasty bowl is just a craft? Well, if it’s if it’s well made, well designed, and has beautiful line and balance and unity, and you know, all that, to me, it’s just as breathtaking. And, of course, that’s… that would that always would make for a good discussion. It’s good to be able to tell why each is good. And, I’ve had students end up in stage design, and you know, theater design, and even going into product design. And it’s very much all kind of related.

    Haley Hansen

    Very, broadly applicable skill set.

    Jim Craft

    Sure. It really…

    Haley Hansen

    Sort of like English.

    Jim Craft

    Yeah, like English. And the the kind of core I would say in English is hopefully that you can read well, and understand what good research and a real you know what a good sentence is, and good paper is, and good presentations, all those kinds of things are incredibly widely applicable.

    Haley Hansen

    Are there any specific programs or organizations around the state that you would recommend for someone interested in pursuing a career in the arts?

    Jim Craft

    Well, there’s certainly, you know, you can become members of, you know, artists and crafts societies or artists.

    Haley Hansen

    I think I’ve seen a couple of galleries run by like artists and guilds and stuff like that.

    Jim Craft

    Yeah. And then members of both, like um, Co-ops and just commercial galleries, and there’s upsides to both, you know, they, it’s nice to be able to keep, you know, 75-80% of your sales prices. It’s also nice not to have to worry about advertising and promotion, not having to coordinate an exhibition, it’s all done for you. But then they, you know, they keep 50 or 60 or 70 present in a gallery, but that’s what they do. Of course, galleries are gone now. I mean, galleries are not completely gone, but just about it’s, it’s just a completely changed situation because you have online galleries and, you know digital media and promotion, all that kind of thing. And that’s a completely different kind of thing, now.

    Haley Hansen

    At least in Greenville, there’s still plenty of physical ones to wander into.

    Jim Craft

    Oh, yeah, it’s true. It’s it, you know, I just, I just, I’ve done I’ve done those. And I’ve done I’ve made production type runs and things like that, for commercial entities, design houses that make accessories and things like that, that would be called Object art, you know. And I’ve produced for them, and then I’ve also done sub wholesaling for houses that, you know, they like I have sold to the furniture market, in High Point North Planet, and selling to especially tabletop accessories, and lamp companies and things like that. It’s all very fashion-oriented, and you go, you know, you submit a bunch of pieces to put in a furniture market twice a year. And then you might get $20,000 of orders selling your stuff suppose sale, but with minimum quantity. And that was that I felt like, Whoa, I might be able to make it doing this. But everything is always changing; it was always very fashion-oriented. And then, as soon as you would start selling something successfully, they would, you know, find another supplier, usually out of Asia, and then all of a sudden they discontinue that item. And that’s that’s kind of brutal. But that’s, that was that. I didn’t mind being a teacher, though. It was okay. It’s not a; it’s not a… I mean, it’s an honorable profession.

    Haley Hansen

    You have a very big impact in a lot of people’s lives that way.

    Jim Craft

    Well, some would say, you know, some, some, some, some would say that. The best thing about teaching is it gets easier. I mean, I don’t know if anybody’s told you that. But it’s it’s when you teach it gets easier. Because you learn your stuff. You always have to keep up and stay abreast of important improvements and changes in contributions. But it does get easier. I mean, toward the end there, I wasn’t using my notes hardly at all; I would just go into lecture and just go for a couple of hours at a time and not… and it just gets easier, which is which was nice.

    Haley Hansen

    As we’re wrapping up. Do you have any final advice for students who are pursuing a creative career?

    Jim Craft

    I would say keep your alternatives lined up and be realistic about a career in the arts. Don’t fall in love with the idea that you must be just a studio person only. But you know, you can focus on that and keep that. It’s not like you lose that, but, you know, keep keep a number. A number of alternatives in your pocket just to be more widely marketable.