“You aim for relative moments and to be a part of moments that captures people’s imagination or get a certain amount of attention and become a certain level of success that again allows you to go up to the next rung in the ladder.”
Interview
Transcript
Lexi Raines 00:00
Sam, okay, so first, I just want you to give like a little introduction of yourself. What do you do for work, and where are you currently working from?
Sam Sokolow 00:09
Sure. My name is Sam Sokolow. I am a producer of Film and Television. I’m a two time Emmy nominated producer who, after 23 years in Los Angeles and growing up in New York City, has now moved to Greenville, South Carolina, where I am building a slate of independent films. I am working to help build the Clemson film school, and I’m still running my production company from here, as well as working on a global workforce development program that I helped build to help train crew to work in emerging markets, which are skills I certainly want to bring to South Carolina.
Lexi Raines 00:46
Yeah that- and that’s awesome. So you said you’ve lived in LA. So what does working in- what does working in Greenville like, or in South Carolina in general, what’s one thing that you have loved about working here?
Sam Sokolow 01:01
There are many things I love about working in Greenville. One, most of the time I feel like I’m in the middle of a Hallmark movie. Absolutely beautiful, and it is, and I and I say quaint in the best way, coming out of big cities like New York and Los Angeles. This is a perfect place for me right now. My wife is from the upstate of South Carolina. She’s from Gaffney, South Carolina, and we moved here for the best reasons in the world, which was love. To be near her family, and when you do those things, I think miracles happen around you, and so all of the things that I’m working on right now to help bring production to South Carolina and develop production in South Carolina are really motivated by love and by being in the right place that I’m supposed to be in life right now, but bringing my unique skill set from a from a career, you know, in Hollywood, in New York, making movies and TV shows.
Lexi Raines 01:54
Yeah that’s- that’s awesome. So would you say that that’s one aspect that South Carolina like brings to your work, or what would you say its unique influences on you compared to like anywhere else?
Sam Sokolow 02:07
Well, at the end of the day, we’re storytellers. How we execute those stories is modified project to project. I’ve told stories for very, very little money, and I’ve told stories for astronomical sums of money in studio deals with companies like Disney, but at the end of the day, it’s about great storytelling and one thing that I have found in my, you know, 25 plus years of coming to the upstate of South Carolina is that this place is, you know, teaming with great storytellers and whether those storytellers tell their stories in journalistic fashions, whether they write books, poems, essays, short stories, make YouTube videos, as my wife does on her YouTube channel, the Southern Women channel. It’s about authentic storytelling that can also connect with universal themes, so that people locally can appreciate them, and people you know globally can appreciate them. Because we live in a remarkable time right now where there’s only one territory left and it’s the whole world at once. Yeah. So the opportunity to be a part of an emerging market like South Carolina, and hope to help facilitate the remarkable storytellers here tell their stories on screen, is extremely exciting and gets me up every morning with a tremendous amount of ambition and enthusiasm and there are a lot of talented people in the state of South Carolina, I think it’s a hidden gem. So, you know, again, if I can help facilitate some of those storytellers and- and some of those stories then, then it’ll be a true blessing.
Lexi Raines 03:54
Yeah that’s- that’s an amazing to hear, and that’s such- you’re bringing such wonderful opportunities to South Carolina. So, I’ve actually heard that there’s like, a really, like, big and close knitted filmmaking hub in Greenville that I didn’t know about before. How would you describe that local community?
Sam Sokolow 04:15
It’s a, it’s a, I would describe the Greenville production community, to paraphrase Shakespeare, you know, “she may be small, but she is mighty”. There are very talented people here, cinematographers, grips, you know, directors, assistant directors, certainly writers and I think that tapping into that talent is something that I’m in a constant state of trying to do because, you know, being a producer and- and having had the fortune of producing some pretty big things in my career, it’s a very unique skill set, and I think that producers, while not everyone understands what they do. Are, are organizing? Can we? Can we? Can be a part of organizing the- the talent that’s already there. So, you know, I’m not here to put my own thoughts or process into play or attempt to do that. I’m here to try to learn and discover and harness the energy that’s here, and again, see if my experience as a producer can- can help some great stories be made here, and hopefully made by local artists, filmmakers, writers, directors, and exported to the world. So, the South Carolina stories and attitude and wonder can be felt by everyone the way I feel it, you know, by getting to live here now.
Lexi Raines 05:43
Yeah, that is- that’s awesome. That’s so amazing. So how would you define your professional or personal successes and like your creative endeavors, since you have shifted to kind of helping people along in their paths?
Sam Sokolow 06:02
You know, when you have a career in the arts, I think that you’re always looking ahead to the next project, as we say, swimming to the next buoy in the ocean. And, you know, I’ve been very fortunate to work on amazing projects my whole career, and at different levels. So, when I was in New York, it was more independent films and commercials. When I moved to Los Angeles, I got involved in larger television series, and eventually global, you know, shows that really had a massive impact. And now that I’m in South Carolina again, I’m not bringing my own preconceived ideas of what it should be. I’m trying to harness the energy here and see if I can be a supportive force. Again, there are a lot of different ways to think of a producer, and I certainly have many definitions and many facets that I go through when doing a project, from development through production, through delivery, then distribution and marketing. I mean, you’re sort of there for the whole life cycle of a project. But ultimately, I distill the job of being a producer down to putting creative people in a position to do their best work. Yeah, and I can come here and put creative people in a position to do their best work, then I’m doing my job that I’ve been fortunate to learn over many, many years of trial and effort, and, you know, failure and success. And, you know, learn by doing this. This, this job, I think, for everyone that works in filmed entertainment, to a large degree, is you learn by doing. You can get trained, certainly, and you can get the education, but once you step on set, that’s where you take your training and you’re in your education, put it to work and begin to learn by doing and by- by the real world experiences that you have and- and so I’m just hoping to bring that experience and good energy and support to the to the creatives here that I am fortunate to meet and hopefully work with.
Lexi Raines 08:09
Yeah, it’s- it’s amazing that you can give that to people, because I know there are so many people that in like smaller states that don’t have that type of guidance to look to. When you first started your journey in film, what was, what was your biggest fear to first starting out with that?
Sam Sokolow 08:31
I’ve wanted to do this as long as I can remember. I was what’s called the latch key kid growing up in New York. My parents both worked. My brother and sister were older than me, so I came home most days from school, and sort of was on my own, and movies were my imaginary friend. Movies were my escape. Movies were my babysitter, and so I’ve loved movies and dust as well television and storytelling on screen my entire life. So, I try to keep things very positive, but honest to goodness. My biggest fear was not getting to do it. My biggest fear was failing in my attempts to actually work in the industry and be a part of projects. That was what drove me to never quitting, to being, you know, really stick to it, to having something that I think everyone needs in this industry, which is perseverance. And I have a deep well of perseverance, because not doing this was the worst thing I can imagine. You know, you know, could I have been a lawyer, a doctor, or the politician or whatever, perhaps. But I think that, you know, going back to the original, original, original, sort of caveman days, you know, there are people who go out or cave people who go out and kill dinosaurs, and they’re those who guard the cave. And then there are people in the back drawing on the wall and creating a sense of entertainment. Storytelling, continuity and storytelling, to me, is the bedrock of society and the bedrock of continual society. And so not being a storyteller was the scariest thing. And so again, I’m very blessed to have had a supportive family, to have had a supportive people around me, but, but really, my only fear was not doing it.
Lexi Raines 10:24
Yes, and obviously, you’ve become so successful being nominated for the Emmys, that’s like mind blowing. That’s absolutely awesome. Was- was this like a defining moment in your creative journey, or do you have one, like, was there a particular project you worked on that had a significant impact on you.
Sam Sokolow 10:45
I think there are many projects that have impacts on you as you go through time. Yes, and with each achievement, you have earned the right and what I would say, the internal credibility to reach for the next rung on the ladder. You know, I’ve done projects; when I- I made an independent feature when I was in my 20s in New York, that was like the- the very definition of the labor of love, the fall on the sword, the kind of, you know, throw all caution to the wind. And when we got that film made, I thought that was the most definitional moment of my career. Yeah, when the film didn’t get the distribution deal that we had hoped, and we sort of somehow ended up with it, literally like sitting in boxes in an apartment, I thought that was the other kind of definitional moment of my career. Then we created a paradigm and became the first filmmakers to ever self-distribute a movie using the internet? Yeah, that’s got a tremendous amount of national and in some cases, international attention. And I thought that was a defining moment, you know, so that that the goal is to keep working, and the goal is to keep trying, and the goal is to keep stretching yourself, to try to, you know, do bigger projects or more significant projects as you see them. And that definition is different for everyone. But certainly, when I got nominated for the first Emmy, it was, without question, a feeling to kind of use the allegory of the hero’s journey of slaying a dragon. I went out to Hollywood, I- I broke into an industry I’d never been in before. I only knew at the time my brother and my best friend, even- even Julia, my wife, who was my fiance at the time, was still in New York. It was a very kind of caution, again, caution to the wind. I hope it works out experience and to have built a career there and built the relationships and built the company that I built and achieved those things, I would say that getting nominated for the Emmy was certainly a significant moment that allows me to kind of step back and be like, wow, look, look what, look what happened. It was pretty remarkable. But even that is a collaborative experience, you know, I didn’t get nominated for an Emmy. I mean, technically, I did, but we got nominated for an Emmy, the creative team on that show, and that year, you know, Jeffrey rush got nominated for Best Actor, and there were, you know, there were 10 nominations from the technical side. So it was, it was being able to work with people of that caliber that I think, for me, was more exciting and more meaningful than the accolade. But the accolade certainly is, is pretty astounding. And, you know, frankly, pretty cool.
Lexi Raines 13:41
Yeah for sure. So you seem like you obviously, you have so much experience in this. I’m sure people have tried to put in their two cents into your career. What is the best and worst advice you’ve received?
Sam Sokolow 13:59
The best advice that I received was that you don’t aim for money in the creative arts. You aim for relative moments and to be a part of moments that that capture people’s imaginations or get a certain amount of attention and become a certain level of success that, again, allow you to go up to the next rung in the ladder. Because, you know, as a- as a producer, I want to work with the best talent in the world. You know, that’s the goal, world class talent. And so if I was aiming just for money, I may not have achieved or taken some of the risks that I took that allowed me to achieve things that allowed me to go up that ladder. So, working for moments, being a part of something relative, always thinking, how can we do something that cuts through? How can we do something that really connects with an audience that taught me to focus? On the work and the creative idea and process and quality of something, and give the things you’re a part of an opportunity to become relevant, and then the opportunities and things like money follow. So that was the best advice I would say to anybody that wants to be a filmmaker or be in this industry, make things,? you know. Don’t just wait to get chosen. Don’t just wait to get picked, take agency of your career, of your experience, and make a short film, write a script, do something that gets noticed, because we’re in the visual arts, and if you have visibility and getting to do the art, kind of follows. So that was the best advice I was given. The worst advice that I was given, honestly, it, I don’t think I can nail one particular thing down. It’s sort of in, you know, I would say that there were moments where my gut told me to do something, and I allowed a representative, an agent, a manager, a lawyer, to tell me that’s probably not going to work. Yeah, and when I, when I took the advice of others that something wouldn’t work and didn’t execute something that my gut was telling me to do more than not, I would see some version of it become a success. You know, not in every case. This is not a business, a patent, 1000 for sure, but I would see that and say I should have just followed my gut. So it was less about, I think, sweeping advice that was like bad advice, yeah, which is, I think it was in the moment, listening to whoever was in my ear at any given moment that talked me out of following my heart and my gut, and so I learned over time, to follow my heart and my gut, and as one of my other producing mentors said to me, do the things that you believe in, and I promise that you know, 10 years from now, there’ll be plenty of people lined up to tell you if you were right or wrong.
Lexi Raines 16:57
Yeah, I think those are good words to live by, because you truly never know until you’ve gone out and you’ve tried it, so-
Sam Sokolow 17:06
Exactly, I don’t look at anything like a failure. Everything is a learning experience. Everything is a learning experience. So, you know, I try not to think about things in the terms of successes and failures. I try to think in the terms of, what did I learn, what did we experience? And, you know, again, you have a lot more failure, quote, unquote, than you do success in the industry. I’ve put 20 TV shows on the air. I’ve been a part of making half a dozen films. You know, these are all incredible experiences and achievements, of course but to get there, I’ve probably tried 300 things, so there’s 275 things that never quite made it, yeah, but, but I’ve learned from every single thing that that we tried.
Lexi Raines 17:59
Yeah, I think that’s extremely valuable. So, can you walk me through a typical work day for you, like, what does your process look like, and what do you, what’s kind of expected from you on a daily basis?
Sam Sokolow 18:15
It’s a great question. On a daily basis, I- I wear several hats. And- excuse me-
Lexi Raines
You’re good.
Sam Sokolow
On a daily basis, I wear several hats. And the number one thing that I’ve learned is to be present, so that whatever I’m doing, I’m completely present for and right now I am only here talking to you. This is, this is what I’m doing. When we’re done, I will move on to something else and be present for that. So any given day, I even just- taking today as an example: I woke up early. I had a 90 minute meeting with a writer in the UK, in England, with a producing partner in Iceland on a global television series that we’re developing. We hope it becomes a global series, but it has the potential to be. I did some of that while driving to Clemson. I then taught film production courses at Clemson, which I’m extremely passionate about, to help build the Clemson film program. Help- help South Carolina again, go up and weight class itself, which isn’t going to happen because I wanted to it’s going to happen because great young talent is emerging here. And put in that effort and energy, and I love teaching. Then on my way back to Greenville, I had a few other business calls. And then once I got to Greenville, I put all my energy into this, you know, global workforce training program that I do with a company called Stage 32 and in that, I’ve been going back and forth, literally, with film commissions and some studios in Austria, in Uganda. Bucha. I had an exchange with the film commissioner in Croatia. So, you know, I think it’s seeing the- the world as open right now, but again, trying very hard to focus locally on developing things. But in any given day, I will develop. I will work on the projects that I’m producing. I will work on educating people here in the state of South Carolina, I will work on building the Clemson film school, and I’ll work on this, you know, incredible global training project to help people all over the world get the skills they need to work in the industry as- as it’s emerging all over the place. Yeah, it sounds like, but they’re, they’re busy days, but they’re exciting days. And what I will say on a very personal note is that working from Greenville is an absolute joy, and in New York and Los Angeles, there’s more external pressure and external noise, and I find that I’m more effective here in focusing on each thing that I’m trying to do. Zoom has changed the world. So nobody cares where I am as much as what I can bring to any given opportunity, or- or- or aproject or initiative. So, you know, it’s wonderful to be in Greenville and kind of have this calm around me, but, but be doing, you know, probably the most exciting work I’ve, I’ve ever done, including, you know, two seasons of genius that have, that have happened since I’ve been here.
Lexi Raines 21:33
Yeah, and that’s that’s so good to hear. So it sounds like you obviously have so much going on at all times. How do you create, like, a healthy work life balance where you’re able to maintain kind of like your professional life and also just your personal life?
Sam Sokolow 21:53
You know, maintaining a healthy work life balance is not the easiest thing in the world, and sometimes you certainly put more emphasis on work at times, and then you have to make a point of, you know, either having set date nights with, you know, my wife, or making sure that we get in the car and go spend a day with her family, or I hop on a plane and go up and spend a weekend in New York with my mom and my brother and taking vacations when we can. And when those things happen, get out of the house and do things, hiking a little bit, getting into nature here has been really wonderful. I try to have a little bit of balance in every day, you know. And- and by having a little bit of balance in every day, then, then- then you end up in balance in life. But I, you know, I meditate, I- I have my own, you know, spiritual, you know, experience that I am deeply into and- but I love the work and so from the outside looking in. You know, others might think that I maybe work too much, but to me, this is such a reward to get to do this work. I-I’m not a hobbyist. I don’t, I don’t really- I’m not going to bake sourdough bread or make a ship in a bottle. I’d rather spend that time helping somebody make a short film or reading a script or- or again, helping Clemson with new opportunity, helping the Film Commission in South Carolina try to achieve whatever goals they have, helping, you know, people around the world get the skills they need to work in this industry. So it’s not always easy. You do have to really be disciplined to take time off and to and to make sure that you do smell the roses and- and cultivate a really healthy personal life. And I’m lucky. I’ve got some really wonderful friends. I’ve got a great family and- and I have a wife who I love so dearly that I’m in South Carolina now.
Lexi Raines 23:56
Yeah. So what are some, like, habits that you have developed throughout your career that you think would be beneficial for others wanting to join your field?
Sam Sokolow 24:10
It depends on what they want to do, but immersing yourself in what you want to do while sounding so obvious, I think that there’s a there’s a sense that the arts and filmed entertainment is some type of magic and- and is some artistic experience, which it is, but on some level, that is like, can feel a little unattainable. But when I graduated from film school myself, I did not get a bachelor of the arts. I got a Bachelor of Science, and that always reminds me that this is a science, this is a craft, and you have to apply yourself to the craft. So if you want to be a producer, you know, go online, Google “What does a producer do?” Google things about the things that- that- that make a producer. I know how to manage a budget. I know how to do cost reporting. I know how to manage a crew of people on the creative side and the business side. If you want to be a cinematographer. Study cinematography, shoot things, get a camera, take the camera apart, put the camera back together. You know, don’t, don’t, kind of sit around dreaming about things. Be active. Yes, meet, meet your dreams halfway. Don’t, don’t expect somebody to just knock on the door and hand them to you. Study work. If you want to be a screenwriter, awesome. Read screenplays. You can download screenplays right now off the internet for almost any movie, -there’s- there- you can go on sites and download all the Oscar nominated movies right now, the scripts, read the scripts, then watch the movie, see what choices were made by the by the director and by the creative team and the production designer and the costume designer and the hair designer to all be a part of telling that story. So, I really think it’s about immersing yourself in the things that you want to do and just trying to learn as much as you can about them. And those are things that every individual can control. If you want to be an actor, study acting, get into acting class, put in the time, get- get better at your craft, get, you know, build your reservoir of- of- of tools so that you can be a strong actor. And then, by being an acting class, you may meet other actors that invite you to be in a film, be in a short, be in a play. You know, I think, I think you have to get into the community that you want to be in, and you have to kind of commit yourself to learning and- and- and experiencing the things that you want to do and learn from them. So, yeah, I’m just a real believer in self-studying and self-motivation, and- and, and, and we live in a moment now with the internet where everything’s at your fingertips, so you can learn about anything, and you can learn about and then apply those things yourself. So, you know, I think that the best advice I can give people is think about the things that you want to do, and you don’t have to do one thing. I have a friend in Los Angeles who, you know, we refer to as the Swiss Army knife. He’s a professional grade editor. He’s a professional grade line producer, which is someone who makes budgets and handles the money. He’s an accomplished producer. He’s in the Writers Guild of America. He’s a writer, and he’s given himself the opportunity to always work by mastering multiple crafts. And so I think ultimately, we’re crafts people, and when you’re a crafts person, you know, study the craft, do the craft, and everything else will happen.
Lexi Raines 27:46
I completely agree. I feel like so many people, they think that the most successful people are only these creative geniuses that have had this, this burst of creativity. But there’s so much more to that, to it than that. There’s, like, every aspect of it outside of that, marketing yourself, networking, learning how to budget, like you were saying, basically. So I think people, I think people will find a lot of good advice from that.
Sam Sokolow 28:17
Well, yeah. I mean, look, ultimately, and I don’t want to sound like brash or anything, but the difference between amateurs and professionals in the arts is really the difference between people who start stuff and people who finish stuff. And if you can become a finisher, get your film done, get your script done, you know, put it out there in the world, even if you just put it on YouTube and share it with people to see and get see, get feedback, finish things. You know, being a professional producer for all the years I was in Hollywood, especially working in television, you know, these weren’t independent projects that I could get back to later. I mean, this was like, deliver on time and on budget and- and, and you have to deliver a finished thing. And so all of the things I’ve been talking about always come back down to me as- as learning how to finish finishing the great divider of people that that want to do things and people that are doing it. And so, it’s, it’s not to me again, it’s not very complicated. It’s just finish the script you’re writing. Don’t get to page 40 and write another one. Don’t get to page 40 and start rewriting it from page one again. Get to the end, finish of something, and then go back and look at the edit and keep working on it. But finishing is the ultimate goal, I think, for anybody that wants to work professionally in this world. And if you finish something, the great news is you can then start the next thing and apply everything you learn from the thing that you finished. But if you don’t finish things, you can easily get bogged down and lose a lot of time and momentum and then feel like I can never get anything done. And you know, there’s no perfection. There’s no perfection. I mean, Francis Ford Coppola just recut God Father Three again. You watch the movie, Empire Strikes Back and there are continuity issues. There’s no such thing as perfection, but finishing and exposing your work to an audience is, is, is the is, to me, the coolest thing in the world. And you know, not everybody’s going to like everything you do. Some people might really not like something that you do. That’s okay, but finishing is really the key. So I- I hope that people in South Carolina continue to create, continue to start, and really continue to finish, and get the work out there.
Lexi Raines 30:36
Yeah. So do you have any questions that you wish you were asked today?
Sam Sokolow 30:47
Hmm, it’s a good question. I don’t believe I do. I mean, if you feel that I’ve answered the questions that that this, this opportunity to talk to you, you know was about then, then I feel pretty good about it. You know? Again, there I’m I can talk about this all day long. I love teaching and I love the I love talking about the process, but at the end of the day, it’s the doing. And so instead of answering more questions, you know, hopefully we’ll do a lot of things that people will hear about and see and enjoy and- and you know, continue to look at South Carolina as this great place that great stories come from.
Lexi Raines 31:32
Thank you so much. I think that people are definitely going to get so much from this interview. I think you had so much amazing advice, so much so many good stories that people can take and just digest on their own. So my last question for you is, do you have a creative in South Carolina that you’d like to nominate to be interviewed?
Sam Sokolow 31:58
Ah, can I get back to you on that?
Lexi Raines
Yes, you can, yes
Sam Sokolow
Because I don’t. I mean, I will, but I don’t, I don’t for something like this. I don’t like to nominate people that I have not asked if they want to do it.
Lexi Raines
Yeah, you’re completely good. Yeah.
Sam Sokolow
I want to make sure that who I nominate says yes and- and isn’t too busy or into some other things, or maybe this isn’t their jam. So give me, you know, pop me a note, maybe again on Monday or Tuesday. I’ll talk to a few folks and there, I mean again, I’ve met some extraordinary creative energies down here. I have two at the very top of my head, one in the film industry and one of the music industry but let me, let me put a feeler out to them and see if they’re if they’re game.
Lexi Raines 32:44
Okay. Thank you so much again. This interview has been so amazing, like, even just on a personal level, like, your advice means a lot. So yeah, I hope you have an amazing rest of your day.
Sam Sokolow 32:59
You too, appreciate you making the time work. And, you know, reach out if there’s anything else I can do. And awesome. Alright, well, I’ll let you know about nominating somebody. And if you wouldn’t mind, whenever my interview does drop, if you can just pop me a note and a link, I’ll share it with a bunch of people.
Lexi Raines 33:14
Yeah I definitely, will definitely do that. Love it.
Sam Sokolow 33:17
Alright Lexi, awesome yourself. And great Friday night and we’ll be talking. We’re in touch. Thank you.
Lexi Raines 33:22
Thank you too.
Sam Sokolow
All right. Take care. Bye.
